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Thread: About ace side count

  1. #14


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
    I have no interest in engaging in a my count is better than yours discussion as they have been beaten to death. I concur with the myriad of test/sim results that identify what is mathematically optimum. The point I would make is that there is a difference between mathematically optimum and effective. In my intuitive opinion, if I take all the AP counters I know and graph their "effectiveness" on a bell shaped curve, the multi-level highly optimum folks would be on the far right, the wannabes would be on the far left and the hi/lo / KO folks would be in the center. If you find AP play to be an avocation then you belong in the middle (or you are an exception), if you find AP play to be your vocation then you should be on the far right.

    Even accomplished athletes dedicate large amounts of time to practice to be able to perform their craft. Their are no professional golfers who don't hit thousands of balls to insure they are sharp. Being on the right side of my bell shaped curve demands a frequency of practice and perfection to be successful or they will be devoured by the brain damage required and the increased cost of errors for the multitude of reasons.

    I see folks trying to perform at the professional level without the environment (practice and frequency of play) to warrant their choice. Vanity (I am a very smart person and can do anything!) and ignorance (I do not understand the ramifications of my decision) contribute to their bad choice. The results are higher error rates and less success.

    Those of us who have occasion to encourage a new player in their quest should provide a more measured step wise progression for their learning that includes the recognition of the threshold requirements of moving to the optimum. Learning simple before tackling complex is not a bad thing. It is what is best for you, not just what is the best.

    As always, consenting opinions are welcome...............
    I agree with you.need tons of time to practice for being professional.I realized that I still have a lot of things to learn.thx for advice


    ??? iPhone ????? Tapatalk

  2. #15


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    There are two different animals for side counting- single/double deck, and shoe games. For the former, find an easy way to keep track of a number 1-8 (pressure on toes?).

    For the latter, check out the thread I started below, which has a lot of info. A note that I use Halves for blackjack shoe games (which is quite powerful without an ace side-count), but for a blackjack variant, I determined that a side count of aces was worthwhile. Ultimately, when playing this variant, I use letters for the side count, and numbers for the main count. Moreover, I start my number count at '20', so that I never have to remember a negative number. I know if the main count in my head is '6', that means a running count of -14. I do the same with letters, starting at 'J'. I already know that 8L is a playing (running) count of -12, but a betting (combined, prior to TC conversion) count of -10.

    https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/sh...-in-shoe-games

  3. #16


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    Quote Originally Posted by All Clear View Post
    There are two different animals for side counting- single/double deck, and shoe games. For the former, find an easy way to keep track of a number 1-8 (pressure on toes?).

    For the latter, check out the thread I started below, which has a lot of info. A note that I use Halves for blackjack shoe games (which is quite powerful without an ace side-count), but for a blackjack variant, I determined that a side count of aces was worthwhile. Ultimately, when playing this variant, I use letters for the side count, and numbers for the main count. Moreover, I start my number count at '20', so that I never have to remember a negative number. I know if the main count in my head is '6', that means a running count of -14. I do the same with letters, starting at 'J'. I already know that 8L is a playing (running) count of -12, but a betting (combined, prior to TC conversion) count of -10.

    https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/sh...-in-shoe-games
    It really inspires me.thx a lot


    ??? iPhone ????? Tapatalk

  4. #17


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    "Even accomplished athletes dedicate large amounts of time to practice to be able to perform their craft. Their are no professional golfers who don't hit thousands of balls to insure they are sharp. Being on the right side of my bell shaped curve demands a frequency of practice and perfection to be successful or they will be devoured by the brain damage required and the increased cost of errors for the multitude of reasons."

    The point about practice is fine but it's different from what you imply. You are stating that the AP must also change the count he uses. This is like saying a golfer must change his Golf Clubs, not just practice more with the clubs he has.

    Seems to me, someone with a lesser count has to deal with more variance and perhaps less per hour, thus necessitating more time to earn the same amount of money but you seem to be arguing for a change in the count to use to be a full time pro. I wonder how the full time pros using HiLO are managing.

  5. #18


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    "Even accomplished athletes dedicate large amounts of time to practice to be able to perform their craft. Their are no professional golfers who don't hit thousands of balls to insure they are sharp. Being on the right side of my bell shaped curve demands a frequency of practice and perfection to be successful or they will be devoured by the brain damage required and the increased cost of errors for the multitude of reasons."

    The point about practice is fine but it's different from what you imply. You are stating that the AP must also change the count he uses. This is like saying a golfer must change his Golf Clubs, not just practice more with the clubs he has.

    Seems to me, someone with a lesser count has to deal with more variance and perhaps less per hour, thus necessitating more time to earn the same amount of money but you seem to be arguing for a change in the count to use to be a full time pro. I wonder how the full time pros using HiLO are managing.
    As a Golfer, if you don't own at least 5 extra putters and drivers, and a couple backup wedges and a whole other set of sticks, you're not really a "golfer".

    Also, I'm doing quite well (full time pro using HiLo) thank you for asking. :P

  6. #19


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    Is there any KO. Pro around here?

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  7. #20


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    I mean full time.

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  8. #21
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    1 out of 4 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by ferenc11 View Post
    "K.O. Pro"
    Obvious Oxymoron.

    Unintended hilarity.

    Much appreciated.


  9. #22


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    Quote Originally Posted by fresh ice cream View Post
    Thx for advice, Bigdaddy.I use Advanced Omega II which is very similar to Zen Count but the only difference is that Omega just doesn't count for Ace. Will it be more accurate using Ace side count with main count than Ace-reckoned count?
    Yes - AO2 w/ ASC is one of the most powerful counts you can use. It is more powerful than Zen. But AO2 w/o the ASC, is not as powerful as Zen. My personal opinion is that side counting aces in a 6 or 8 deck game is nuts, so Zen would be my choice for that.

  10. #23
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    Advanced Omega II without an Ace Side Count is not the "advanced" count.
    I refer you to any edition of the fine book from whence you learned A.O. II

    "Blackjack for Blood"


    A.O. II is almost as powerful as Hi-Opt II, but is a bit harder to employ as it
    requires counting the 9's. It also overvalues the 6's. Great in pitch games !


  11. #24


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    Quote Originally Posted by ferenc11 View Post
    Is there any KO. Pro around here?

    Sent from my LG-H955 using Tapatalk
    It seems like you are still looking for ways to improve the KO count. I have an idea on how to improve the playing efficiency of the card counting system but have not simulated it yet. I couldn't find a way in CVDATA that would allow me to use a playing side count where I total the side count for playing purpose. It has a side count strategy option but only displays a multi-parameter table.

  12. #25


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    I didn't trust my quarter deck estimates so I started using a balanced ace side count. There is no need for quarter deck estimates. For example a Hilo user can switch to a main count of 3-6 counted as +1; 7,8,9 as neutral; T as -1, which is Hiopt1. And add a side count of 2 counted as +1 and A counted as -1. Add the 2 running counts and the sum RC is Hilo for betting. Use the combined count for the playing decisions that aren't influenced much by the ace, which is most plays, and use the combined count for plays influenced by the ace.
    I think I found an unbalanced level 1 count system that is more powerful than the Hi-OPT I version that you described above. Similarly, it still require side counting the Aces and 2s.
    Last edited by seriousplayer; 05-21-2017 at 11:42 AM.

  13. #26


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    Thank you seriousplayer for reading my mind...

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