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Thread: About ace side count

  1. #1


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    About ace side count

    I found that I can't count the card very accurately when I add the side count.As a result, I use English letter to assign Ace.For example, when first Ace comes out, I assign the first Ace as A, second Ace as B,etc...It works better for me because I will not mess up with my main count.This was wit I found.Anyone has better idea or own way?welcome to discuss.


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    There are some who use Alphabet characters to designate the side count. There are some who use Integers to keep said side count as well, usually by keeping each count "far and separated" in their mind's eye.

    If you prefer one over the other, then it is no big deal.

    As long as you can side count *correctly* and without pause/issue when used in conjunction with the main point count, then you should not have any issues.

  3. #3


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    pro tip : if you get to i u have gone too far

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meistro123 View Post
    pro tip : if you get to i u have gone too far
    Side counting aces becomes a non issue well before "u"

  5. #5


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    I tried many methods of side counting aces and finally decided that a,b,c.... worked the best for me. I only use an ace side count for DD games (HO2), so as Meistro notes above, if you get to i, you have gone to far. Side counting aces in a 6 or 8 deck game isn't worth the additional effort. Suggest that you use an ace-reckoned count for a shoe game.

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    0 out of 9 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    NOTE: Failure to Side-Count Aces is a hallmark of a weak Card Counting System.

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post

    NOTE: Failure to Side-Count Aces is a hallmark of a weak Card Counting System.
    With just Side Counting Aces does not make the card counting system the most accurate. As I have been doing a large amount of research on card counting the past several months. To make a card counting system more accurate you need to add more parameters to it. For example, maintaining a secondary count along with the card counting system. Combining the two together or even better adding three parameters and combining those three together for betting and playing. Doing that even with an unbalanced card counting system you can outperform HI-OPT II with Ace Side count in SCORE. Both in Single, Double and 6-8 deck games.

    If you are capable of maintaining a secondary count do so.
    Last edited by seriousplayer; 05-20-2017 at 07:39 AM.

  8. #8


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    I have no interest in engaging in a my count is better than yours discussion as they have been beaten to death. I concur with the myriad of test/sim results that identify what is mathematically optimum. The point I would make is that there is a difference between mathematically optimum and effective. In my intuitive opinion, if I take all the AP counters I know and graph their "effectiveness" on a bell shaped curve, the multi-level highly optimum folks would be on the far right, the wannabes would be on the far left and the hi/lo / KO folks would be in the center. If you find AP play to be an avocation then you belong in the middle (or you are an exception), if you find AP play to be your vocation then you should be on the far right.

    Even accomplished athletes dedicate large amounts of time to practice to be able to perform their craft. Their are no professional golfers who don't hit thousands of balls to insure they are sharp. Being on the right side of my bell shaped curve demands a frequency of practice and perfection to be successful or they will be devoured by the brain damage required and the increased cost of errors for the multitude of reasons.

    I see folks trying to perform at the professional level without the environment (practice and frequency of play) to warrant their choice. Vanity (I am a very smart person and can do anything!) and ignorance (I do not understand the ramifications of my decision) contribute to their bad choice. The results are higher error rates and less success.

    Those of us who have occasion to encourage a new player in their quest should provide a more measured step wise progression for their learning that includes the recognition of the threshold requirements of moving to the optimum. Learning simple before tackling complex is not a bad thing. It is what is best for you, not just what is the best.

    As always, consenting opinions are welcome...............
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    "The optimal multiple of the side count to add to get a combined count is 0.46."
    This is interesting because with the ZEN COUNT
    Aces are given a tag of -1, half of the tag for 10's.


  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    In single and double deck its worth knowing the Aces still exist. Include it, move it, or drop it. But do not disregard it. I think Stanford Wong came to this conclusion with Wong Halves. The ultimate EOR count. I always ask myself. Were they selling books or playing cards? My two cents says SCORE is for playing cards. Dont miss the advantages by focusing on thresholds. Be efficient. Be consistent. Be competitive.

    Single deck four fingers reveals the amount played. Index finger is 1. Longhorn sign is 2. A ok sign is 3. Closed fist is 4. Double deck switch hands.
    Good idea and I use the chips to record Ace when they come out.


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  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by dogman_1234 View Post
    There are some who use Alphabet characters to designate the side count. There are some who use Integers to keep said side count as well, usually by keeping each count "far and separated" in their mind's eye.

    If you prefer one over the other, then it is no big deal.

    As long as you can side count *correctly* and without pause/issue when used in conjunction with the main point count, then you should not have any issues.
    Yeah,it still needs practice and be comfortable with it


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  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdaddy View Post
    I tried many methods of side counting aces and finally decided that a,b,c.... worked the best for me. I only use an ace side count for DD games (HO2), so as Meistro notes above, if you get to i, you have gone to far. Side counting aces in a 6 or 8 deck game isn't worth the additional effort. Suggest that you use an ace-reckoned count for a shoe game.
    Thx for advice, Bigdaddy.I use Advanced Omega II which is very similar to Zen Count but the only difference is that Omega just doesn't count for Ace. Will it be more accurate using Ace side count with main count than Ace-reckoned count?


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  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    I should point out it is very subtle. Not blatant and out for all to see. Not a good idea to have your fingers full extended like you're a fan at a ballgame. Use your thumb to touch your fingers underneath.
    Yeah, using chips is very subtle and fingers underneath is better than my way.


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