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Thread: Newbie

  1. #1


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    Question Newbie

    I am not a gambler nor do I have any interest whatsoever in gambling. I am fascinated by Ed Thorp, the law of large numbers, and the whole science of Blackjack being beatable. I am a newbie to blackjack, and just beginning my Blackjack education. I need guidance. I am reading a blackjack book, "BLACKJACK Play Like the Pros" by John Bukofsky, and studying basic strategy. I want to study hard and learn. I know this is not easy, and the little bit I have seen so far I think it will take at least 16 months to 24 months of devoted studying to be successful. My end goal is to get thrown out of one casino because they realize I am an excellent advantage player. Before I do any more studying, and possibly waste a lot of time and energy I want to make sure I am studying the proper stuff, and headed in the right direction. At this point I have the following questions.
    1. Where is the best blackjack game that gives the player the best chance to win like dealer stands on soft 17?
    2. Why doesn't everybody play at the casino in the answer from question #1?
    3. At the beginning my Blackjack educational journey what should I be studying... what should I be doing?
    4. What basic strategy chart should I be studying? Shouldn't it be the strategy chart that matches the rules of the game I am going to play in?
    5. Any suggestions of websites that can help me study and learn?
    6. Anything else you can make me aware of to get on the right track.

    Thanks for the Help;

    BRIAN

  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by BRIAN View Post
    I am not a gambler nor do I have any interest whatsoever in gambling. I am fascinated by Ed Thorp, the law of large numbers, and the whole science of Blackjack being beatable. I am a newbie to blackjack, and just beginning my Blackjack education. I need guidance. I am reading a blackjack book, "BLACKJACK Play Like the Pros" by John Bukofsky, and studying basic strategy. I want to study hard and learn. I know this is not easy, and the little bit I have seen so far I think it will take at least 16 months to 24 months of devoted studying to be successful. My end goal is to get thrown out of one casino because they realize I am an excellent advantage player. Before I do any more studying, and possibly waste a lot of time and energy I want to make sure I am studying the proper stuff, and headed in the right direction. At this point I have the following questions.
    1. Where is the best blackjack game that gives the player the best chance to win like dealer stands on soft 17?
    2. Why doesn't everybody play at the casino in the answer from question #1?
    3. At the beginning my Blackjack educational journey what should I be studying... what should I be doing?
    4. What basic strategy chart should I be studying? Shouldn't it be the strategy chart that matches the rules of the game I am going to play in?
    5. Any suggestions of websites that can help me study and learn?
    6. Anything else you can make me aware of to get on the right track.

    Thanks for the Help;

    BRIAN
    Before the details, why do you want to get into this? Like most businesses, this one also requires a significant amount of capital before you can get started. It's not like the old days, now rules differ at $5 minimum tables, $10 tables and $25+ tables and the more the capital, the better your chances.

    This venture takes a lot of commitment in time and money. Are there not other things you can pursue? How much time do you have and at what expense.

    Second, you first start reading the forums and archives, understand the terms, understand Bankroll and Money Management and then, if you still want to do it, start finding a count to learn and start practicing.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Before the details, why do you want to get into this? Like most businesses, this one also requires a significant amount of capital before you can get started. It's not like the old days, now rules differ at $5 minimum tables, $10 tables and $25+ tables and the more the capital, the better your chances.

    This venture takes a lot of commitment in time and money. Are there not other things you can pursue? How much time do you have and at what expense.

    Second, you first start reading the forums and archives, understand the terms, understand Bankroll and Money Management and then, if you still want to do it, start finding a count to learn and start practicing.
    Why I want to get into this is the same reason I fought a speeding ticket for 2 years of my life... not the $120.00 I saved when I was found not guilty, but the fact five lawyers told me I could never beat a radar speeding ticket. It's the challenge. It's the learning,. It's the achievement. There are many other things I could pursue but this one intrigues me. When I do get thrown out of my first casino, and I will get thrown out one day, it will have all been worth it. It's the challenge, the journey, and the conquering. Why do people climb Mount Everest? You can die climbing Everest. I don't have tons of capital but I have $10,000.00 in cash to start, and I have the same amount of time everyone has... 24 hours in a day. I'm not doing this for the money. I'm doing it to prove to myself I can do it. So where do I start, what do I do, and what are the first steps to climbing the Blackjack mountain.

    Thanks for the Help;

    BRIAN

  4. #4


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    1. The first rule of fight club is we don't talk about fight club. Honey holes aren't shared too often, and never openly. You can look over CBJN and find some good games.
    2. See rule one.
    3. You should be reading things like Blackjack Attack 3 and practicing casino verite. Pick a count. Most people use hilo. Hi opt 2 is very strong and I felt was wort it to learn. Zen is a very good count if you don't want to keep multiple counts, but still want more than hilo. If you're really new, learn basic strategy and get a deck of cards. Count down the deck until you can correctly count it down in about 30 seconds. It takes practice, and it may not seem like you're improving, but just be patient and put in the effort and you'll get there.
    4. I like the basic strategy charts on the Wizard of Odds site. You'll want to learn the strategy for all the rules you plan to play. The strategy varies by the rules and number of decks. Know these forward and back.
    5. All the blackjack forms are a wealth of information. I learned a ton from Arnold Snyder's site too.
    6. If you want to get backed off somewhere, I suggest El C.ortez in downtown Vegas. They're very sweaty. Getting backed off isn't a badge of honor or a rite of passage though. If it is your goal, as it seems, then may, "no more BJ for you, sir." be as satisfying as you imagine.

    I am not a gambler either. :-). I enjoy having an edge. Without an edge, I have no desire to play. I also like to do things sometimes just to do them. Life is a journey, the goal is the journey itself. Welcome to the forum ^_^

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Bubbles; 05-17-2017 at 07:44 PM.

  5. #5


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    Welcome to the forum Brian. Professional Blackjack by Stanford Wong seems to be the backbone of beginning AP blackjack. Once you have a general understanding, Blackjack Attack by Don S. is highly recommended. If your end goal is to get thrown out of a casino, your end will be sooner than later. Getting "backed off" isn't a badge of honor, but a loss of a profitable venture. And depending on the info they have on you, technology they utilize, what lengths they wish to go, and what databases they participate, you may be unable to play at a very very large sample of stores. Besides, some stores will back people off for varying their bets whether or not the person is actually counting or not.

    Before I address your other questions, you mention "possibly waste a lot of time and energy". Whether or not this venture will be a waste of time, energy, and money, will largely depend on your bank roll, willingness to travel, and local casino options. AP blackjack is a finely edged advantage, and you will have losing streaks regardless of how well you are able to count, that will test both your confidence, patience, and bank roll. Counting is the easy part. If you aren't willing to travel, what are your local casino options? What are the rules and pen? If you aren't sure, make a trip asap. Take a good look at what they offer and whether or not its a beatable game. For example, if you are limited to only 1 or 2 stores, one may pay 6:5 for blackjacks and the other shop may only offer 6/8 pen, H17, no surrender games that ,for the standard counter, be unplayable. As for your other questions-

    1. The best blackjack game ever found will not be spoken of. They are referring to as "honey pots" and are adored by those who find them. All it takes is one person to take note of where a super juicy game is, show up with their team/massive bank roll, and blast that game until it no longer exists. However, for just finding games with good general rules, a subscription to CBJN through bj21.com is a good start. While it may not be 100% accurate, its enough to gain a general idea of the playing conditions.

    2. Because the game would no longer exist.

    3. Basic strategy. Basic strategy. Basic strategy. To the point where each and every play is automatic. Once you've memorized the charts, memorize the cards. By that I mean instead of seeing numbers on cards, they should appear as one number. Simple example- you are dealt a 9 and a 5. The thought process mentally should not be "9+5= 10,11,12,13,14.. 14!". It should be practiced to the point where your brain sees the set as 14. If you are willing to risk however big or small your bankroll is on blackjack, spend the money and purchase CVBJ along with CVData or CVCX. They are programs which will prove to be invaluable from the very beginning to fine tuning advanced strategies.

    4. All strategies and charts can be found in the above mentioned software and books. Basic strategy does vary slightly by ruleset, but a strategy chart from place A compared to B should read the same assuming the same rules. If you wish for a tangible chart, Don Schlesinger sells the Ultimate Blackjack Strategy Cards which have most common rulesets you will come across.

    5. This website along with bj21.com should have more than enough info in the forums and archives to keep your brain ticking. Read the forums, find some users you realize appease to you and know their shit, and search for their post. There are very knowledgeable people on these boards.

    6. Walk before you run. Until basic strategy and "reading the cards" become second nature, don't bother with trying to mix in a count. Purchase CVBJ, and drill drill drill before you throw any big money around in a live condition. Before you actually implement a bet spread, find a $5 minimum game and flat bet while keeping the count. Sitting at home and counting is a lot easier than when all the distractions that occur in casinos hit you.

    Lastly, there is no best count for everyone. Be honest with yourself and your abilities and learn the most powerful count that you can become comfortable with. The best count, is the one that you can do accurately. They will all get the money if done correctly. But trying to earn that extra small percentage that a stronger count will give you, but making 5% more mistakes, will put you into a losing game.

  6. #6


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    There are so many basic strategy charts wouldn't it be impossible to learn them all? Which basic strategy chart should I start learning first?

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by BRIAN View Post
    There are so many basic strategy charts wouldn't it be impossible to learn them all? Which basic strategy chart should I start learning first?
    You get a wealth of information from some knowledgeable people and that's the response? Put some effort in, and maybe a thank you.

  8. #8


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    There are so many basic strategy charts wouldn't it be impossible to learn them all? Which basic strategy chart should I start learning first?

  9. #9


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    You are so correct. I forgot to say thank you, and I do thank everyone for all their help and advice.

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie Wonder View Post
    Welcome to the forum Brian. Professional Blackjack by Stanford Wong seems to be the backbone of beginning AP blackjack. Once you have a general understanding, Blackjack Attack by Don S. is highly recommended. If your end goal is to get thrown out of a casino, your end will be sooner than later. Getting "backed off" isn't a badge of honor, but a loss of a profitable venture. And depending on the info they have on you, technology they utilize, what lengths they wish to go, and what databases they participate, you may be unable to play at a very very large sample of stores. Besides, some stores will back people off for varying their bets whether or not the person is actually counting or not.

    Before I address your other questions, you mention "possibly waste a lot of time and energy". Whether or not this venture will be a waste of time, energy, and money, will largely depend on your bank roll, willingness to travel, and local casino options. AP blackjack is a finely edged advantage, and you will have losing streaks regardless of how well you are able to count, that will test both your confidence, patience, and bank roll. Counting is the easy part. If you aren't willing to travel, what are your local casino options? What are the rules and pen? If you aren't sure, make a trip asap. Take a good look at what they offer and whether or not its a beatable game. For example, if you are limited to only 1 or 2 stores, one may pay 6:5 for blackjacks and the other shop may only offer 6/8 pen, H17, no surrender games that ,for the standard counter, be unplayable. As for your other questions-

    1. The best blackjack game ever found will not be spoken of. They are referring to as "honey pots" and are adored by those who find them. All it takes is one person to take note of where a super juicy game is, show up with their team/massive bank roll, and blast that game until it no longer exists. However, for just finding games with good general rules, a subscription to CBJN through bj21.com is a good start. While it may not be 100% accurate, its enough to gain a general idea of the playing conditions.

    2. Because the game would no longer exist.

    3. Basic strategy. Basic strategy. Basic strategy. To the point where each and every play is automatic. Once you've memorized the charts, memorize the cards. By that I mean instead of seeing numbers on cards, they should appear as one number. Simple example- you are dealt a 9 and a 5. The thought process mentally should not be "9+5= 10,11,12,13,14.. 14!". It should be practiced to the point where your brain sees the set as 14. If you are willing to risk however big or small your bankroll is on blackjack, spend the money and purchase CVBJ along with CVData or CVCX. They are programs which will prove to be invaluable from the very beginning to fine tuning advanced strategies.

    4. All strategies and charts can be found in the above mentioned software and books. Basic strategy does vary slightly by ruleset, but a strategy chart from place A compared to B should read the same assuming the same rules. If you wish for a tangible chart, Don Schlesinger sells the Ultimate Blackjack Strategy Cards which have most common rulesets you will come across.

    5. This website along with bj21.com should have more than enough info in the forums and archives to keep your brain ticking. Read the forums, find some users you realize appease to you and know their shit, and search for their post. There are very knowledgeable people on these boards.

    6. Walk before you run. Until basic strategy and "reading the cards" become second nature, don't bother with trying to mix in a count. Purchase CVBJ, and drill drill drill before you throw any big money around in a live condition. Before you actually implement a bet spread, find a $5 minimum game and flat bet while keeping the count. Sitting at home and counting is a lot easier than when all the distractions that occur in casinos hit you.

    Lastly, there is no best count for everyone. Be honest with yourself and your abilities and learn the most powerful count that you can become comfortable with. The best count, is the one that you can do accurately. They will all get the money if done correctly. But trying to earn that extra small percentage that a stronger count will give you, but making 5% more mistakes, will put you into a losing game.
    All that for a brief attempt to get backed off? He says he wants to be identified by a casino as a card counter, be backed off and it's the end of it. There is nothing that he wants to be a recreationally counter or a career as a pro.

    he should ignore your advice, learn hi-lo, spread 1-20 on a DD game, get backed off, be done with want he wants, maybe take the challenges he seeks to another endeavor.

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