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Thread: Stop Loss

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    Stop Loss

    Thoughts and opinions on stop losses. I'm not referring to leaving a positive shoe if you are losing, but rather if y'all use heat and time indicators alone to close out the session or also have a monetary cutoff. For example, you aim for $500 a day. No slash and burn approach and wish to return. You have a session roll of $3000. Heat permitting, will you play until you no longer feel funded enough for the next shoe, or walk away in between shoes before that underfunded threshold is met at say -$1000?

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    There is nothing wrong with a stop loss but I do not care for stop wins; if conditions are optimal I would rather put in more volume.

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    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meistro123 View Post
    There is nothing wrong with a stop loss but I do not care for stop wins; if conditions are optimal I would rather put in more volume.

    So explain when conditions become optimal.

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    I don't have a stop win to that I'll leave a good count, but If I'm up around 500 in one sitting, I'll leave before starting the next shoe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie Wonder View Post
    I don't have a stop win to that I'll leave a good count, but If I'm up around 500 in one sitting, I'll leave before starting the next shoe.
    I think trying to keep session wins/losses reasonable is a good idea. Obviously the amount is variable depending on your spread and the store, but I feel generally keeping your sessions polite and not greedy helps with longevity. I don't start a new shoe if I'm up or down 5-10 max bets depending on the store. Occasionally those shoes that either stink or are pure gold happen and push me above those limits, but they are rare.

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    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    I play until I get a hot shoe that exposes 75% of my max spread and hit the door at many places...that's on shoes. On Double deck I might stick around for two max bet cycles depending on the pit and how they are spaced out. Not all shoes are equal, best to play it by ear and see how it goes. If you start off winning and the dealer doesn't call out check's play the pit may not even notice what's happening. If you're losing your repeated buy-ins create a lot of attention. How your betting develops also matters. If the shoe goes gradually positive your betting may make you look like a good customer just chipping up after wins or losses. If the shoe goes mildly negative so that you're betting 1x$25 then suddenly goes crazy positive you're gonna most likely need to run for your life when that shoe ends.

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    Give consideration to a game of people played with cards. I realize 99% of the forum, books, Sims, etc is only about the numbers. The cards don't care. People care. Thus have the power to make the game of cards non existant.
    Play the game to live your life. Don't live your life to play the game. Pigs get fat...Hogs get slaughtered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie Wonder View Post
    Thoughts and opinions on stop losses. I'm not referring to leaving a positive shoe if you are losing, but rather if y'all use heat and time indicators alone to close out the session or also have a monetary cutoff. For example, you aim for $500 a day. No slash and burn approach and wish to return. You have a session roll of $3000. Heat permitting, will you play until you no longer feel funded enough for the next shoe, or walk away in between shoes before that underfunded threshold is met at say -$1000?
    Sorry Stevie, but I think it's an incorrect mindset to say, "I'm going to try and make X $$$$ today." You cannot control what will happen day-by-day, only how well you do, personally. I think a healthier goal is, "I'm going to shoot for 2-3 hours of quality play today, with the best act possible and as-close-to-perfect play possible. The results are the results. Some days you can easily skim $2-, 3-, 4K across a number of stores, while other days you cannot win a hand and bleed money. If you try to steer your results, you're going to be setting yourself up for some rough road.

    I don't know what stakes you play, but think about what the worst results you've seen in one shoe (in your sims and live play) and carry at least that much, if possible. I personally like to carry double that amount. I think it's better to err on the side of more money in your pockets than less, as it will give you some confidence when you'll need it most - when you're getting straight up Murdered. So, as far as "indicators" go, I'd say they should be something along the lines of:

    -Have conditions degenerated? i.e. have more players joined the table, did a slower dealer take over, are the cuts worse, etc.?
    -Am I too mentally taxed to continue to play perfectly? (if you've already been through the ringer a bit - whatever that means to You).
    -Do I have enough cash to start another shoe? If it goes the worst it can go, will I have enough ammo?

    Here are some additional thoughts:
    If you've already gone deep, don't try and win it all back in that session. It can get you in trouble. Fast. Shoot for half, then boogie if you either get half, or are not getting anywhere and now approaching the stayed-too-long mark. If you do happen to get it all back plus some in one shoe, no problem, just hit the bricks after the shoe's over / you lose your advantage and are losing hands / giving it back. Feel free to PM me.

    FW

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    Thanks for the advice everyone. I play $25-$150/200 DD only. And I always have more than enough cash on hand for the big swings. Usually around 3x my hourly standard deviation. I've structured my bets to potentially look like a ploppy with a voodoo system the best that I can and don't consider my "timer" to start until I've reached a $100 bet level. A more clear wording of my concern would be whether or not being "satisfied" with a $500 win regardless of outside factors, was a good idea in correlation to a stop loss of ~$1000. But it seems like while the stop loss is fine assuming any positive position was played out, no profit goal should be set. Now that I'm reading this out, it seems pretty silly. If I made only $500 per win, stopping at -$1000, I'd have to win 2:1 just to break even. Playing the short sessions that I do, that high of a win percentage would be nearing fantasy land.

  10. #10


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    But not all of your sessions will stop at -1k or +500. You might quit before either of those conditions are met. You also might go above your 500 or below the -1k. It doesn't matter how you structure your sessions as long as you don't quit (with an edge) mid-shoe.....it's not going to effect your overall winrate ($/hr).
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

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