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Thread: Comments on a quote to a tip hustling pit...

  1. #1


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    Comments on a quote to a tip hustling pit...

    The Pit lady apparently suggested the player be nice to the dealers to a guy up $6k....his response and more follows (from BJ apprenticeship). What do you think...

    "“LOOK it’s not happening. I’m not gonna tip your dealers. Why should I have to tip them? I don’t have millions of dollars like the casino owner does. Who is more equipped to pay all your dealers, me or the person employing them who has millions and millions at their disposal?? It’s totally unfair to ask me to tip. The dealers want a chunk of my wins but they don’t want to share my losses?? If I give them money when I’m winning will they let me borrow $50 to cover a double down when I’ve lost all the money in my pocket? Absolutely not. It is unfair. I’m not here to have fun. I’m here to make money. This is business and speaking of that don’t be mistaken. You were trying to guilt me by saying the casino was nice to me, that they gave me rooms and food. That’s not being nice. That’s being manipulative. It’s a business move for you guys, not a charity. You gave me the room to entice me to stay longer so I can lose more money. You may be nice outside of this casino but you weren’t doing it to be nice. I’m sorry but I’m just not going to tip.” I said all of this and her attitude totally changed. She was respectful and courteous to me from then on out. She told the dealers not to be rude to me and to refrain from any kind of tip hustling.

    I left the next day due to scheduling conflicts and I haven’t been back since.
    I’ve chosen not to tip as part of my playing style. Anytime in the past that I’ve felt pressure to tip in some way or another, I’ve regretted it on the ride home. More often than not, I believe it won’t extend your playing time to upper management unless you’re losing a good portion of your edge. I know several players who tip—some are very successful and some are not. At the tables, it is more uncomfortable not to tip. It’s easier emotionally to tip while playing; dealers are nicer to you, there’s a sense you belong, and you feel management is writing you off as a non-counter. Truth is, dealers forget about you the moment you leave their sight and upper management will always value protecting their bottom line over the fullness of a dealer’s toke box. And on the drive back to the motel after you get backed off, that’s when I’ve felt the most regret because I gave away EV. Actually not even EV, but actual value! Giving a dealer one $25 chip is like giving the dealer the EV of 5 bets x$500! At the end of the day, this is a business. Tipping adds up quickly and quietly."



  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    The Pit lady apparently suggested the player be nice to the dealers to a guy up $6k....his response and more follows (from BJ apprenticeship). What do you think...

    "“LOOK it’s not happening. I’m not gonna tip your dealers. Why should I have to tip them? I don’t have millions of dollars like the casino owner does. Who is more equipped to pay all your dealers, me or the person employing them who has millions and millions at their disposal?? It’s totally unfair to ask me to tip. The dealers want a chunk of my wins but they don’t want to share my losses?? If I give them money when I’m winning will they let me borrow $50 to cover a double down when I’ve lost all the money in my pocket? Absolutely not. It is unfair. I’m not here to have fun. I’m here to make money. This is business and speaking of that don’t be mistaken. You were trying to guilt me by saying the casino was nice to me, that they gave me rooms and food. That’s not being nice. That’s being manipulative. It’s a business move for you guys, not a charity. You gave me the room to entice me to stay longer so I can lose more money. You may be nice outside of this casino but you weren’t doing it to be nice. I’m sorry but I’m just not going to tip.” I said all of this and her attitude totally changed. She was respectful and courteous to me from then on out. She told the dealers not to be rude to me and to refrain from any kind of tip hustling.

    I left the next day due to scheduling conflicts and I haven’t been back since.
    I’ve chosen not to tip as part of my playing style. Anytime in the past that I’ve felt pressure to tip in some way or another, I’ve regretted it on the ride home. More often than not, I believe it won’t extend your playing time to upper management unless you’re losing a good portion of your edge. I know several players who tip—some are very successful and some are not. At the tables, it is more uncomfortable not to tip. It’s easier emotionally to tip while playing; dealers are nicer to you, there’s a sense you belong, and you feel management is writing you off as a non-counter. Truth is, dealers forget about you the moment you leave their sight and upper management will always value protecting their bottom line over the fullness of a dealer’s toke box. And on the drive back to the motel after you get backed off, that’s when I’ve felt the most regret because I gave away EV. Actually not even EV, but actual value! Giving a dealer one $25 chip is like giving the dealer the EV of 5 bets x$500! At the end of the day, this is a business. Tipping adds up quickly and quietly."


    I read this article on BJA. I always wonder about the authenticity of these things. This guy was pounding what sounded like a sawdust joint with little to no heat on a double deck game as he crushed them for hours on end. I cant even avoid heat on shoe games lol.
    Last edited by BakaFortuna; 05-12-2017 at 06:03 AM.

  3. #3
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    I would be pissed if a player I was dealing to tried to rationalize stiffing me by saying I enticed him to lose more by giving him room and food for free. I didn't do that. The argument that the casino has millions is a bit ridiculous around here. Most are struggling to stay afloat and need subsidy to stay in business. Granted the casino could take some of the overpaid staff and spread that salary in a more equitable nature. I have found tipping to get its in return and tipping the right dealers makes you money. When it comes to a longevity playing style tipping is important. Nobody likes a stiff taking up space as the suits all used to be dealers. If you play unrated, stiff the dealer and make money you can bet you won't last long at all. Besides totally fitting the profile of a card counter nobody will like you because you make everyones job more difficult and unpleasant. I can't understand the people that say out of one side of their mouth that 15% to 20% gains each for this that and the other thing isn't worth the effort like they make plenty of money. Then out of the other side of their mouth they say they make so little they can't tip. If they just did one of those 3 things they scoffed at they could tip and still be ahead. The combination of events paints them as a combination of dumb, lazy and cheap. Do you they tell the waitress that the chain restaurant has billions of dollars and should tip the waitress instead of them tipping? What happens to a stiff in the restaurant? They spit in their food when they come back. A good tipper gets great service and food and drinks forgotten when the bill comes so they will return. It is no different in the casino. Service people have a strong memory for both who tips and who stiffs. Their livelihood depends on it. If you don't want to be memorable tip but not much.

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    I would be pissed if a player I was dealing to tried to rationalize stiffing me by saying I enticed him to lose more by giving him room and food for free. I didn't do that. The argument that the casino has millions is a bit ridiculous around here. Most are struggling to stay afloat and need subsidy to stay in business. Granted the casino could take some of the overpaid staff and spread that salary in a more equitable nature. I have found tipping to get its in return and tipping the right dealers makes you money. When it comes to a longevity playing style tipping is important. Nobody likes a stiff taking up space as the suits all used to be dealers. If you play unrated, stiff the dealer and make money you can bet you won't last long at all. Besides totally fitting the profile of a card counter nobody will like you because you make everyones job more difficult and unpleasant. I can't understand the people that say out of one side of their mouth that 15% to 20% gains each for this that and the other thing isn't worth the effort like they make plenty of money. Then out of the other side of their mouth they say they make so little they can't tip. If they just did one of those 3 things they scoffed at they could tip and still be ahead. The combination of events paints them as a combination of dumb, lazy and cheap. Do you they tell the waitress that the chain restaurant has billions of dollars and should tip the waitress instead of them tipping? What happens to a stiff in the restaurant? They spit in their food when they come back. A good tipper gets great service and food and drinks forgotten when the bill comes so they will return. It is no different in the casino. Service people have a strong memory for both who tips and who stiffs. Their livelihood depends on it. If you don't want to be memorable tip but not much.
    This is why a lot of times I will tip when I color. Making sure the pit sees me tip as I color up a few purples (on a good day)

  5. #5


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    I seem to waffle my opinion on the concept of tipping. I do and I don't. That being said, there is an entertainment factor. The very best tip hustler was a young girl who didn't try to be a tip hustler. She was genuinely happy when you win, was very respectful and friendly.

    For the first time ever, I commented negatively to a dealer in front if a critter. This average looking witch was uglier due to her crappy demeanour. Her speed was mediocre at best, slowed by the crackeding of her non moving lips. I said to her "you know, I'm down right now, and I'm in a far better mood than you - don't you ever crack a smile. She eventually said that she wasn't feeling well, to which I responded that she should be at home. The dealer was taken out of my rotation, may even have been sent home fir the day.

  6. #6


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I tip ZERO, except in special circumstances that might come up two or three times a year, and have never regretted it.
    Opinions and Commentary on the Gaming Industry: The Bear Growls

  7. #7


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    I toke lightly but often enough to where I blend in with the ploppies.

    Also keep eyes on players at table. If you have another player tipping the dealer heavily you can probably tip less or not at all. The dealers focus will be more on getting tips from that person and may not even care if you tip or not.

    I also agree with tipping when the floor is around. If it's obvious I'm down and have no small chips I may just slump away and not tip. If I hit some huge positive variance quickly and am up a big amount in a short time. I feel a decent toke is in order. Try to let the floor see it and I think it helps even more if the floor person is a "dual rate" and deals themselves at other times.

    Obviously tipping cuts into ev but it's about how much you feel like "giving back" and also how much you feel it's really buying you. If you are playing stores where they know you by name and know you life story and dog's name then I feel like tipping does actually get you something. I have played lots of hours at some local stores and I think it would be foolish to think my tipping has bought me nothing.

  8. #8


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    I tip when my edge is decent and if I play longer sessions, but a dealer is not a service job. It just is isn't. There's not a service job out there where employees are as hostile or rude as dealers often are and maintain employment.

  9. #9


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    I tip for an advantage. If a toke buys deeper pen, or a longer welcome, it's money well spent.
    You can't compare a server and a dealer. Yes, they both work for tips, but a server "keeps his own" whereas most dealers have to share. In areas where the dealer keeps their own tips, a toke goes a long way,
    In one store, the dealers will stare at you and put the cut card up a bit further than they need to. I learned quickly that a small toke moved it way, way back. $.50 here buys me about 78 cards.
    Tipping, in my mind, is a business decision. If it isn't going to benefit you, don't do it. Oftentimes, however, it is money well spent.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  10. #10
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    I tip as tiny as I can, but much more frequently than I need to.
    If playing black or chunky green, I always buy a $100 stack of
    reds. That may not last through my session. It generally doesn't.
    Last edited by ZenMaster_Flash; 05-17-2017 at 10:25 AM.

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by mcallister3200 View Post
    I tip when my edge is decent and if I play longer sessions, but a dealer is not a service job. It just is isn't. There's not a service job out there where employees are as hostile or rude as dealers often are and maintain employment.
    Holly shit, I thought I was the only one who knew that dealers don't work at a service job!! Comparing dealers to waitresses are like comparing an xwife and a new girlfriend, yikes! If these casinos can't afford paying the dealers a living wage, then why should I? I have made the offer many times; I will tip twice as much as what the casino pays per hr, but the dealers will have to listen to my requests instead, has not happen yet! Hmmm!!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaKevinB View Post
    If these casinos can't afford paying the dealers a living wage, then why should I?
    Sure they can afford it if they turn all the BJ tables to 6:5.

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    Sure they can afford it if they turn all the BJ tables to 6:5.
    All the casinos I know of are making tons of money. After paying the politicians off and employees they still have lots of money for bonuses for all the big shots. The only casinos that lose money are the ones with no patrons or bad management. How the fuk can a casino not make money??? So if we the players don't tip, then the casinos will have no other choice and make all the bj tables 6/5, don't figure!!

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