Chunky green backoffs

[BakaFortuna]

Hi all. I was just wondering about back off frequency depending on the type of action a player plays. Obviously very few APs would or could play purple action with much longevity and black seems to be close to the breaking point of what is tolerable almost anywhere. Some places find chunky green action laughable while others find it alarming. I am currently a green chipper and just wondering what level of heat I could expect generally? Hard question to answer generally I know, but I am trying to get a sense of what cover is necessary at my level of play. Also, are there any places which are tolerant of aggressive spreading of blacks? Obviously no need for specifics, just curious. Thanks.

[Freightman]

Cover, for cover's sake, is silly. The house usually knows what you're doing. So, in place of cover, various stratagems.that is in th eye of the beholder.

Rule of thumb, but not bulletproof - the better the game, the lower the tolerance. I know several tolerant places where critters are told not to sweat action. Cuts are lousy. The less tolerant places usually have better beatable games. The foregoing is not a Vegas approach. Fwiw.

[BakaFortuna]

Cover, for cover's sake, is silly. The house usually knows what you're doing. So, in place of cover, various stratagems.that is in th eye of the beholder.

Rule of thumb, but not bulletproof - the better the game, the lower the tolerance. I know several tolerant places where critters are told not to sweat action. Cuts are lousy. The less tolerant places usually have better beatable games. The foregoing is not a Vegas approach. Fwiw.

So when you say they usually know what youre doing... why continue to allow it? Just because you wont hurt their bottom line?

[Freightman]

So when you say they usually know what youre doing... why continue to allow it? Just because you wont hurt their bottom line?

Just because you're counting doesn't mean you're a threat.

[BakaFortuna]

Your expectation of profit should not exceed their tolerance level. Think of it like a pitcher in baseball. Throwing high and inside only counts as one ball. But if he keeps doing it or has that reputation, he will find himself in trouble, in more ways than one.

Right well that's a good analogy for me as someone who loves baseball. So when you say don't win above their "tolerance" do you mean in one session or over an extended period of time?

[BakaFortuna]

Just because you're counting doesn't mean you're a threat.

Is a threat someone with a positive hourly EV (say 30-40 an hour) or is a threat someone who has won too much over a long period of time?

[Freightman]

A casino threat is not a counter per se. A poor counter well funded is very welcome. A good counter underfunded is welcome to lay. A good counter who is well funded is generally not welcome to play.

Further, allowances on game conditions, which vary from store to store, need to be taken into account, so, a well funded counter playing 4/6 can usually play fir quite a while.

[BakaFortuna]

Both. Session. I try to see what they see. Most people walk up and lose their money in 50 hands. Or chase by constantly going to into the wallet. Now I come along and play them even for 45 minutes or make a small but quick profit and exit. Get in, get paid, get out and no one really noticed you.

Extended period of time. Make sure your losing sessions get recorded. Dont worry they rarely fail to jot down a win. I dont hide chips. But i hold the ones that cant add up to a black.

I do the same. And I rat hole a couple hundred here and there. I always try and make sure they record ALL my cash ins. Only can convince them so long.

[Stevie Wonder]

Great advice from Freightman and Moses. There isn't one universal threshold. Just be mindful of the cost of cover at a poor ruled game or limited BR. There seems to be two teams on this board; Those who don't believe in cover, and those who live by it. Largely depends what type of joint you are playing at.

[Frank Galvin]

Further, allowances on game conditions, which vary from store to store, need to be taken into account, so, a well funded counter playing 4/6 can usually play fir quite a while.

When you state "a well funded counter playing 4/6...", what do you mean by that? Either I am completely dense today (perhaps many days), or that comment is just not clear to me (and perhaps others).

[Freightman]

When you state "a well funded counter playing 4/6...", what do you mean by that? Either I am completely dense today (perhaps many days), or that comment is just not clear to me (and perhaps others).

A good well funded counter, in a tolerant joint, should be able to play for some time with pen at 4/6.a lousy counter should be able to play forever.

[SplitFaceDisaster]

Cover, for cover's sake, is silly. The house usually knows what you're doing. So, in place of cover, various stratagems.that is in th eye of the beholder.

Rule of thumb, but not bulletproof - the better the game, the lower the tolerance. I know several tolerant places where critters are told not to sweat action. Cuts are lousy. The less tolerant places usually have better beatable games. The foregoing is not a Vegas approach. Fwiw.

Freightman, just wondering if you would clarify please. I think I know exactly what you meant, but not 100% sure. By saying "The foregoing is not a Vegas approach", you meant that there aren`t any casinos in Vegas that tell their critters to not sweat action, right? I didn`t know whether you meant that, or that the "various strategems" approach in your opinion wasn`t a good approach for Vegas...

[Freightman]

Freightman, just wondering if you would clarify please. I think I know exactly what you meant, but not 100% sure. By saying "The foregoing is not a Vegas approach", you meant that there aren`t any casinos in Vegas that tell their critters to not sweat action, right? I didn`t know whether you meant that, or that the "various strategems" approach in your opinion wasn`t a good approach for Vegas...

Vegas Shoots first and asks questions later. In essence correct, however, there are places that do take good action, and Tolerate it. That being said, the shitholes of Vegas, on a per capita basis to other locations, will bounce you much quicker.

By stratagems, I'm referring to strategies that give you spread, but look ploppy in nature.