Don't use a player's card

[McBain]

There is no way to prove this but I would give you 5-1 odds that you would have been backed off sooner without a players card. Say you played 150 anonymous sessions. That's 150 separate times they would have done some sort of minimal evaluation of your play. With your act and players card, you were able to snow them, and then you became a known non-threat. Someone who has been playing there for months on a card is not going to get scrutiny like a new player would, unless you give them reason to second guess. Your act sounds specifically designed to not give them reasons to second guess. Bravo to you, keep it up at the other stores.

You might think about what went wrong this time. Insure a bad hand? Hit 12v5? Dealer got four 5's then you raised bet to $300? Doesn't take much to arouse suspicion if you happen to do the wrong move at a precisely poor time the the precisely wrong person was paying attention.

[RCJH]

[QUOTE=McBain;221429]There is no way to prove this but I would give you 5-1 odds that you would have been backed off sooner without a players card. [QUOTE]

I have also been lucky playing rated everywhere, and I have excellent cover.

That said, I experienced my first backoff. I was flat bet at a store I've headstoned for a couple years, playing politely, toking the dealers and generally being friendly. The problem, other than losing a honey hole, is that THEY HAVE MY NAME. My REAL name. If I hadn't played rated, they might have a bio on me, but not my given name.

I'm sure I'll end up in OSN one day, but I'd prefer to be "Unknown person 5052" vs my real name.

I still play rated where it can't be helped, i.e. It doesn't matter if I give a card or not, I'll be greeted by name. But everywhere else I play as a decline, and guess what? Nobody cares, and I can generate more EV playing optionally unrated vs politely rated.

If I had it to do over....


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[jaflynn34]

ive been trespassed/ banned for only being up 800 so its very possible. Some casino security are real Wyatt Erp types and they have little oversight. They know you are counting obviously and if you are winning, many will make an example of you. Just suit up with your disguise and get to work. Hey, at least you have a reason to cross dress now right? Thats what I always say hahahaha

[Stevie Wonder]

I believe a lot also has to do with age. The younger guys in casinos betting green are rare and usually rich kids who love the attention and comps. In my opinion, It's a safe assumption to the pit that the older crowd declining a card are just more established in life, don't wish to bother themselves for such little perks, and are just here to gamble and get out before the wife finds out hes there. But a younger player, saying he doesnt desire a red carpet potential, bets on the larger side, and shows a spread, sticks out like a turd in the punch bowl. I stick to about 45 min max sessions, with half being around the 10 minute mark. As a younger player, in such time windows, it's not bizarre for them to approach me 3-4 times insisting on getting me a card. I got backed off in 30 minutes, after losing 600 then climbing back to only +300. For them to have analyzed my abilities and feel the need to back me off that fast, I'm placing blame on the refusal of card to zero them in on myself. I don't know for sure as a neighbor may have topped them off, but that's my guess.

[Bigdaddy]

Not being recognized as a regular definitely ups their tension level. Interesting story from my last trip to LV - I played on and off strip unrated everywhere. At one store, they demonstrated the height of paranoia. I sat down at their DD game. Pit critter looks at me inquisitively, but doesn't say anything. He walks by the dealer and whispers something to her. Next thing I know, the dealer is cutting the shoe in half. Normal procedure at this game is to set penetration by notch at around 65%. So he obviously told the dealer to cut it in half to see what I'd do. If I left, I would have confirmed myself as an AP. So I stayed and roughed it out for a few shoes. Shift changes and the dealer went back to standard notch penetration. I waited for the next high count, blasted away and got away with a decent win.

[BoSox]

But everywhere else I play as a decline, and guess what? Nobody cares, and I can generate more EV playing optionally unrated vs politely rated.

RCJH, I could not agree more, with your very valuable quote. People who really understand the game realize there is a stiff price to pay for those supposed free comps.

[RCJH]

People who really understand the game realize there is a stiff price to pay for those supposed free comps.

Yup.
Tonight, I did the dreadful deed... I split 10s vs 6 TWICE at 2 different casinos, unrated. The win for just these two hands was a total of $280. Not splitting would have netted me half that, which is what I would have done if I was playing rated in a local casino. That extra money is more than enough for dinner and a hotel.


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[ZeeBabar]

Yup.
Tonight, I did the dreadful deed... I split 10s vs 6 TWICE at 2 different casinos, unrated. The win for just these two hands was a total of $280. Not splitting would have netted me half that, which is what I would have done if I was playing rated in a local casino. That extra money is more than enough for dinner and a hotel.


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I would rather earn $140 and get to play that casino within walking distance of my home for 20 years than to earn $280 a few times and be barred, forcing me to travel all the time.

[RCJH]

I would rather earn $140 and get to play that casino within walking distance of my home for 20 years than to earn $280 a few times and be barred, forcing me to travel all the time.

Zee, did you read what I wrote? At home, I do play rated. I do play politely. But when I'm away, I play as a decline, and play optionally.


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[ZeeBabar]

Zee, did you read what I wrote? At home, I do play rated. I do play politely. But when I'm away, I play as a decline, and play optionally.


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My bad. So far, I have played rated everywhere and the one time I did not, I got backed off after a $400 win. I guess I will take playing rated to wherever it takes. My act seems to work as a rated player and leads to low heat. The few times I played unrated, I did not like the overt scrutiny I got.

[mcallister3200]

Are you playing for the EV or the comps? There is, pretty rarely, a type of place that will give Cashback for play and too much, and include table play with multipliers. In this sort of case it may make sense to water down your game as long term you may make more from the cash incentives than playing a strong game. Zee, you should play rated, you play a watered down game already with the intent of avoiding heat. If you want to play aggressively and get your EV from the play, aggressive anonymous play in short infrequent sessions probably gets the most money.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

" ... play as a decline, and play optionally."

"optimally"

[Freightman]

"optimally"

Flash
Lots of guys play "optionally". Defend some on the count