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Thread: 11 v A Verite D

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    11 v A Verite D

    Hello, I'm hoping someone can figure out what I'm doing wrong. Maybe there's a bug in the software, but I'm inclined to think it's me.

    I have Verite D on my iPad, and I use it to practice. I have it set in HiOpt2, H17, 6 decks. The index it's showing for 11vA is 2. If I keep all the parameters the same, except change to S17, the index is still 2.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    I believe that's the index Braun called for.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    I don't think so. Doubling 11vA is basic strategy in H17, but in S17 it's a hit only. I could be wrong, but why would the index be the same?

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    Senior Member Tarzan's Avatar
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    There is nothing wrong with the software. It's so very close that it is essentially the same. There is very little difference between S17 and H17 for 11vsA even if you are looking at a wide range of different deck compositions as I do. Everything is very much in lockstep with the differences between S17 and H17 with the most drastic difference being 16vsA, as you know. Everything else for H17 is a notch or so lower than the S17 index across the board for the most part.
    Last edited by Tarzan; 05-03-2017 at 01:33 AM.

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    CV includes the indices that are in the books as those are what people are used to. As Tarzan says, 11vA s17vH17 is very close, so most books don't differentiate.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    CV includes the indices that are in the books as those are what people are used to. As Tarzan says, 11vA s17vH17 is very close, so most books don't differentiate.
    This surprises me a bit. Maybe the indexes are close for the 6-deck game, but for DD games using HO2 they are not close. The RA index for H17 is -2 and S17 is +1.

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Few books contain RA indices.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdaddy View Post
    This surprises me a bit. Maybe the indexes are close for the 6-deck game, but for DD games using HO2 they are not close. The RA index for H17 is -2 and S17 is +1.
    I agree. In 6-deck, H17, double is 1-1.5% better than hitting, depending on the two-card holding. For S17, it is 2-2.5% better to hit. For two-deck, as you say, H17 basic strategy is to double. It can be up to 5% better than hitting. For S17, depending on the holding, doubling isn't even the right play.

    The indices can't possibly be the same for ANY game. The discrepancies are simply too large in the expectations.

    Don

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    They aren't the same. But, most books don't bother to differentiate.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    They aren't the same. But, most books don't bother to differentiate.
    So, the point is that the OP was correct. You use what the books tell you, and if the books are wrong, then, unfortunately, Verite D is going to be wrong also, because you can't go around verifying every index of every author.

    Don

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Depends on your definition of wrong. Books don't supply every possible index. They all contain compromises.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Depends on your definition of wrong. Books don't supply every possible index. They all contain compromises.
    My definition of "wrong" is when we use "beat to death" in CV Data to generate an index and it differs appreciably from the one in a book that is supplied.

    Don

  13. #13
    Senior Member Tarzan's Avatar
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    I go by S17+1 and H17 0, but these are not HiOpt2 indices. There are additional factors that I consider for the hand beyond +1 and 0, but my charts for this hand are very close for S17 compared to H17.
    Last edited by Tarzan; 05-06-2017 at 01:12 AM.

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