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Thread: Is this game profitable?

  1. #14


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    I doubt this. Very few players will hit for a 6 card hand,

    especially since MOST 5 card hands are 15 or 16 or 17.

    Perhaps it is of some small value if handled correctly.



    Do you have any numbers to back that up? Because I do.

    http://www.beatingbonuses.com/houseedge.htm

    https://wizardofodds.com/games/black...ategy/charlie/
    Last edited by wookets; 04-25-2017 at 07:44 AM.

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookets View Post
    Do you have any numbers to back that up?
    I do not wish to debate the issue as you are
    willing to accept the figure you found and
    there is naught that I can do to dispel this.

  3. #16


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    I do not wish to debate the issue as you are
    willing to accept the figure you found and
    there is naught that I can do to dispel this.
    There is nothing to debate unless you're saying Mike Shackleford's numbers are incorrect.

    I'll quote them here for everyone else to see.

    Quote Originally Posted by https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/charlie/
    As shown in my blackjack section, the house edge is lowered 0.01% under the seven-card Charlie rule, 0.16% under a six-card Charlie rule, and 1.46% under a five-card Charlie rule.

  4. #17
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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    M. Shakleford has made the occasional error, but what I am saying is that
    his figure is probably correct IF, (and only if), Basic Strategy is modified to
    include the play, and that is not what very many people will embrace !
    Of course, the lower the True Count is, the more likely hitting 5 card stiffs
    will be correct, especially for hands of 12 and 13. Is hitting a 5 card 17 vs.
    a Face Card correct ? Is it correct at TC -2 ? How about TC +2 ?

    The "wizard" is a quant', but he is not an experienced / expert BJ player.


  5. #18


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    M. Shakleford has made the occasional error, but what I am saying is that
    his figure is probably correct IF, (and only if), Basic Strategy is modified to
    include the play, and that is not what many people will embrace !
    Of course the lower the True Count is, the more likely hitting 5 card stiffs
    will be correct, especially for hands of 12 and 13.

    The "wizard" is a quant', but he is not an experienced / expert BJ player.
    Why not just go to the site link that was provided and read Mike's analysis. You will see that the modified BS is provided. And, may I also point out that people like Peter Griffin were not "experienced/expert BJ players," either, although he, like Mike did play the game. You don't have to be a pro to know the math.

    Don

  6. #19
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    I apologize for my egregious abject laziness.
    I guess that I basically dismissed this as an
    irrelevancy, as I have never experienced this
    rule and the game sounds like a nightmare.


  7. #20
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Mike always adjusts the strategy for a rule when analyzing the gain.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  8. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by wookets View Post
    This is incorrect. You are thinking of 7 Card Charlie which is worth approximately 0.01%. 6 Card Charlie is worth about 0.16%

    I suspect the game only lets the player double on hard 9-11. If that's the case, then the game has a house edge of 0.026% per hand, or 0.024% per wager (which is useful for factoring in cashback/comps).

    If the game lets the player double on Hard/Soft 9-11 the house edge is -0.110% per hand, or -0.100% per wager. With perfect play, the player has a small edge before cashback/comps in this scenario. The strategy will be more complicated than traditional BS because you will often be taking hits in situations you regularly wouldn't because of the 6 Card Charlie rule. For instance, with 16v10, the correct play is to hit with 2 or 5 cards, but stand with 3 or 4.
    It says double on any 9 10 11

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueman View Post
    "It says double on any 9 10 11"
    Thus doubling on Ace-8 and pulling a deuce will result in a hand of 11, not 21.



  10. #23


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    [QUOTE=ZenMaster_Flash;220238][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080]Thus doubling on Ace-8 and pulling a deuce will result in a hand of 11, not 21.


    Why? It should still consider it 11 or 21, making it 21..

  11. #24


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    [QUOTE=blueman;220244]
    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    [SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080]Thus doubling on Ace-8 and pulling a deuce will result in a hand of 11, not 21.


    Why? It should still consider it 11 or 21, making it 21..
    When doubling is permitted on only 9, 10, or 11, the point is that soft doubling is not permitted. So, in certain venues, if you do double on A,8, they are imposing upon you that your original hand is 9. Period. Not 9 or 19. If you hit 6,3 with a deuce, you have 11. So, in tbhis circumstance, if you hit A,8 with a deuce, you have 11.

    Interestingly, when Puerto Rico used to permit doubling on only 9, 10, or 11, if you doubled A,8 and caught a deuce, the dopes down there counted it as 21! So, you need to inquire what happens under this very special circumstance.

    Don

  12. #25


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    Is this the game with a $40 max bet? All touch screen?
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

  13. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueman View Post
    "Why? It should still consider it 11 or 21, making it 21."
    If one plays a BJ game with restricted doubles that permits doubling on 9 (most don't)
    and you are dealt an A-8, should you mistakenly double and receive a Deuce
    you will imagine that you are about to win with a 20 or a 21 BUT once you double you
    are, in effect, declaring your hand to be a 9 and not a 19. Of this I am 100% certain.
    Last edited by ZenMaster_Flash; 04-26-2017 at 07:43 PM.

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