Stadium blackjack

[paymypush]

Anybody really know how this game works ? I mean REALLY. BJ Insider, WOV, Gambling Forum etc, either have no info or wrong info. Even the Vegas Gaming regs do not address if a player loses just his original bet on a dealer BJ on splits and double downs. Supposedly you have 30 seconds to place a bet. During slow times, if all players post bet within 10 seconds, does the dealer wait the other 20 seconds or does the machine tell her to deal then.
I believe if player A stands on 8/8, player B hits, player C splits, and for sake of argument the dealer has a 10 up.
Next card out of the shoe is a 5. That 5 gives player B 21, player C has a 13 on his first hand and the dealer has 15, only for player A. Player C calls for a hit on his 13. The next card is an A. Dealer has 16 for player A, Dealer has a BJ for player B, who loses with a 3 card 21 ( WTF) and now Player C asks for a hit on his 14 and receives a 7 for 21, Dealer now breaks with 23. Player C receives a 10 on his split 8 for 18. Dealer now must take a card against player C. Dealer turns a 5 then a 8 and busts.

Player A stood on 8'8 and won. Player C split 8'8 and won both bets Player B hit 8'8, got a 5 for 21 and LOST !

I wouldn't expect much interest in this game from the members here but my curiosity got the better of me prompting me to take a look at it over the past few days at Mohegan Sun in Connecticut.

Just so we're all on the same page, this is Scientific Games Fusion Hybrid Stadium Blackjack. There are currently 61 seats/touch screens over two different pits that are nowhere near each other. Roulette, baccarat and two separate blackjack games can be played simultaneously, from one to all four if you're up to it.

The very good Mohegan Sun rules apply here with a couple of exceptions. The dealer hits soft 17 and 10s may be split. These changes apply to Stadium Blackjack only. All "regular" Blackjack is S17 and no 10 splitting. This means that only original bets are lost when splitting or doubling in the event of a dealer blackjack. Speaking only for this house, there is a 15 second time limit to act on your hand. If time expires, the computer will automatically have the hand stay. The time limit for roulette is 40 seconds and for bac it's 25 seconds.

All players are dealt the same two cards and it's up to them to play as they see fit. One of the selling points is you can't "mess up" anyone's hand. No intimidation from other players. No one telling you that you took the dealer's break card etc. The dealer does not take his second card until all players have acted so doubles and splits will come up against a blackjack.

What's a fun game without side bets? This one has three. Royal Match 21, King's Bounty and Bet the Set 21.

Hope this answers some questions instead of creating more.

[paymypush]

I assumed everyone knew this game is dealt from a CSM but I shouldn't have. The dealer returns the cards to the machine after every hand. He has no choice as there is no discard rack. When it get crowded at Mohegan Sun there will be people waiting for a seat. The $5 minimum is a big draw as are Foxwoods'' $1 Blackjack games.

[buzzard]

I wouldn't expect much interest in this game from the members here but my curiosity got the better of me prompting me to take a look at it over the past few days at Mohegan Sun in Connecticut.

Just so we're all on the same page, this is Scientific Games Fusion Hybrid Stadium Blackjack. There are currently 61 seats/touch screens over two different pits that are nowhere near each other. Roulette, baccarat and two separate blackjack games can be played simultaneously, from one to all four if you're up to it.

The very good Mohegan Sun rules apply here with a couple of exceptions. The dealer hits soft 17 and 10s may be split. These changes apply to Stadium Blackjack only. All "regular" Blackjack is S17 and no 10 splitting. This means that only original bets are lost when splitting or doubling in the event of a dealer blackjack. Speaking only for this house, there is a 15 second time limit to act on your hand. If time expires, the computer will automatically have the hand stay. The time limit for roulette is 40 seconds and for bac it's 25 seconds.

All players are dealt the same two cards and it's up to them to play as they see fit. One of the selling points is you can't "mess up" anyone's hand. No intimidation from other players. No one telling you that you took the dealer's break card etc. The dealer does not take his second card until all players have acted so doubles and splits will come up against a blackjack.

What's a fun game without side bets? This one has three. Royal Match 21, King's Bounty and Bet the Set 21.

Hope this answers some questions instead of creating more.

Actually it did raise more questions. Gabriel Baron, at SHFL, says once a hand busts it is lost. even after a split that eventually loses to a no hole card BJ. Elliot Frome , SHFL math guru conformed same. Neither is sure whether all bets are lost or not. Start with pair of 8's against a 10, DD on first 8 for 21, bust other 3 hands after more splits, dealer then get A for BJ. you LOSE all 3 busted hands and no one seems to know if you lose just original or DD bet. Talk about adding insult to 6/5 injury. As for timers, no one seems to know if all players have bet, does time still go full 30 seconds ?
Guess I will have to go to Vegas to find out anything Henry Tamburin made a trip and told me he got 2 different version from 2 different dealers, management was in the dark. He did meet with Gabe, so hopefully he will shed some light in an article this summer

[DSchles]

"He did meet with Gabe, so hopefully he will shed some light in an article this summer."

There is nothing in Henry's article that mentions anything about losing all to a dealer's natural.

Don

[DSchles]

I just had a phone conversation with Henry, and he confirms that only original bets are lost to a dealer's natural. He also wrote to me with a link to his BJI article, which I am copying, below.

Don

I wrote an article for my BJI (June issue) about Stadium BJ (before I wrote the more detailed article for CP). In my BJI article I wrote:


· If a player splits or doubles and the dealer subsequently has a blackjack, the player only loses his original wager (the second bet made in splitting or doubling is returned to the player).
Here's the link to my article. http://www.bjinsider.com/newsletter_209_stadium.shtml


Regards,


Henry

[davethebuilder]

Stadium Blackjack is currently being trialled in Australia. The game has been re-programmed for our unique hole card rules, uses a CSM, BJ pays 3:2 and betting ranges from $5 - $1,100. It is offered in conjunction with Stadium Baccarat, Stadium Roulette and Stadium Sic Bo. The four live dealers stand on a dais in front of hundreds of terminals along with a Disc Jockey playing modern music. The main advantages are that a working man/woman can come to the casino and play with $5 bets rather than the minimum $30 bets that are required at the tables, can gamble alone if they choose and play multiple games simultaneously.

[Koz84]

Stadium Blackjack is currently being trialled in Australia. The game has been re-programmed for our unique hole card rules, uses a CSM, BJ pays 3:2 and betting ranges from $5 - $1,100. It is offered in conjunction with Stadium Baccarat, Stadium Roulette and Stadium Sic Bo. The four live dealers stand on a dais in front of hundreds of terminals along with a Disc Jockey playing modern music. The main advantages are that a working man/woman can come to the casino and play with $5 bets rather than the minimum $30 bets that are required at the tables, can gamble alone if they choose and play multiple games simultaneously.

Hi Dave, which Australian casinos offer this game?

[davethebuilder]

Star City, Sydney. If the trial is successful it may spread to others especially Brisbane and the Gold Coast which are part of that chain.

[VABJ]

You can find it at Barona (in San Diego) too, 3:2 CSM with their normal good rules. It's been there for a few months. They have two different dealers and you choose between which one you want to play against. Games are the same on both dealers.

[buzzard]

I just had a phone conversation with Henry, and he confirms that only original bets are lost to a dealer's natural. He also wrote to me with a link to his BJI article, which I am copying, below.

Don

I wrote an article for my BJI (June issue) about Stadium BJ (before I wrote the more detailed article for CP). In my BJI article I wrote:


· If a player splits or doubles and the dealer subsequently has a blackjack, the player only loses his original wager (the second bet made in splitting or doubling is returned to the player).
Here's the link to my article. http://www.bjinsider.com/newsletter_209_stadium.shtml


Regards,


Henry

I think I have bad news for Henry. This is a quote from Gabriel Baron " As to the specific question you pose, a player only loses the initial bet if they eventually get to a place in their game where the dealer receives a second card to create a Blackjack... with only one exception, which is a case where they split and hit a hand until it busts. Busted hands are immediate losses."
and there is this also "

Elliot Frome		Jun 13 (2 days ago)
I was incorrect. If a split hand busts, it can lose on a bj "

So I can see a player losing up to 4 times the original bet to a dealer BJ. Adding insult to a 6/5 injury.

[GAB]

Actually it did raise more questions. Gabriel Baron, at SHFL, says once a hand busts it is lost. even after a split that eventually loses to a no hole card BJ. Elliot Frome , SHFL math guru conformed same. Neither is sure whether all bets are lost or not. Start with pair of 8's against a 10, DD on first 8 for 21, bust other 3 hands after more splits, dealer then get A for BJ. you LOSE all 3 busted hands and no one seems to know if you lose just original or DD bet. Talk about adding insult to 6/5 injury. As for timers, no one seems to know if all players have bet, does time still go full 30 seconds ?
Guess I will have to go to Vegas to find out anything Henry Tamburin made a trip and told me he got 2 different version from 2 different dealers, management was in the dark. He did meet with Gabe, so hopefully he will shed some light in an article this summer

Hi everyone, Gabe Baron here to clear up some items above which are misrepresented above.

If a player splits and busts any of the hands, they are already lost- there is no situation where the dealer then ending with a blackjack would return those wagers- they were played out by a player making game choices, some of which may have been played different from basic strategy if players knew they would otherwise receive them back should a dealer end up with a blackjack. This is not unlike BJ games dealt in jurisdictions on live tables where the dealer doesn't take a hole card.

In the example above with splits and a DD on the initial hand that ends as 21, the initial wager is lost, and the busted hand wagers are lost, but the DD is returned.

6/5 or 3/2 is an optional configuration selected by each casino offering Stadium Blackjack. It is not a set configuration as seemingly represented above. Others in this string have already pointed that out from their local experiences.

The betting clock, if you want to call it that, is configurable for other timeframes, although most casinos select it to be 30 seconds. I personally recommend it be 20-30 seconds to allow both casual and more seasoned players time to make their wagers. There would not be a situation where the game "knows if all players have bet" since players are free to adjust their wagers as well as make, adjust, or remove them at any point until the clock reaches zero. This is a standard behavior of the software as it is approved by regulatory agencies.

I am glad to share any other comments should any questions be had from the community. And I want to thank Buzz for reaching out on LinkedIn to make me aware of the posts, even with some of the misunderstandings that exist.

Best regards,

Gabe

[GAB]

I think I have bad news for Henry. This is a quote from Gabriel Baron " As to the specific question you pose, a player only loses the initial bet if they eventually get to a place in their game where the dealer receives a second card to create a Blackjack... with only one exception, which is a case where they split and hit a hand until it busts. Busted hands are immediate losses."
and there is this also "

Elliot Frome		Jun 13 (2 days ago)
I was incorrect. If a split hand busts, it can lose on a bj "

So I can see a player losing up to 4 times the original bet to a dealer BJ. Adding insult to a 6/5 injury.

Gabe once again-

From Henry's article, it is in fact not mentioned that busted hands are lost in split and DD scenarios. I will speak to him as that is important, and mentioned previously in the prior post I made.

Again, if a busted split hand, doubled or not, were returned, the game strategy would be altered greatly.

As such, the game plays as a heads-up version of blackjack versus the dealer and very common no-hole card behaviors found in many overseas jurisdictions are the basis of the game rules.

Cheers,

Gabe

[DSchles]

"Again, if a busted split hand, doubled or not, were returned, the game strategy would be altered greatly."

No, Gabe, it would not. In what amounts to Australian rules BB+1, the only change with respect to regular, multi-deck American rules, is that you don't split 8,8 vs. dealer's ace. There are no other changes to correct BS.

Of course, if idiots play the game incorrectly, they are subject to greater losses, but that is a penalty for their stupidity, not a feature of the correct strategy for playing the game properly. For example, you mention busting on a doubled bet. Only an imbecile can do that! If you double on a 12, for example, you deserve to lose both bets if you bust!

Don Schlesinger