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Thread: Devastation with the shufflers

  1. #27


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix View Post
    The ASM would have to know where the player would cut the deck for this to work. Then this slug would be easily exploited by cutting not where most ploppys cut so as to place the slug in play. I don't see them doing this, lol.
    Agree -

    Even if the ASM was clumping high cards, they still couldn't control where the slug was due to the player's cut. Then all you would have to do is recognize the slug coming out and you would have a huge advantage.

  2. #28


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdaddy View Post
    Agree -

    Even if the ASM was clumping high cards, they still couldn't control where the slug was due to the player's cut. Then all you would have to do is recognize the slug coming out and you would have a huge advantage.
    The point is that they could program it whenever they want and in whatever sequence they have it pre-programmed for. This means that they can counter and confuse an AP. One shoe would be random, another not, preprogrammed for 1, 2 or 3 players at the table and such.

  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    The point is that they could program it whenever they want and in whatever sequence they have it pre-programmed for. This means that they can counter and confuse an AP. One shoe would be random, another not, preprogrammed for 1, 2 or 3 players at the table and such.
    Zee. My opinion is jockeys could get together and pool their money to predict the outcome of a race. I think it would have to be a race where no one but the bettors cared. My point is, why would I ever bet those type of races if I have this belief? Unless I'm invited to their meeting, I have no clue.

    So, if you have this strong belief, why would you play? Maybe they could let you select the program every once in a while. If so, how would you do it to guarantee yourself winning nearly every hand?

    The deck of cards presented to me is made of Ace thru King in each of the 4 suits. You are saying the cards are now put into a machine, then shuffled in a chronological order that knows just how to fuck you?
    Last edited by moses; 04-01-2017 at 10:01 AM.

  4. #30
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    anytime I lose I suspect I was cheated....LOL

  5. #31


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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    Zee. My opinion is jockeys could get together and pool their money to predict the outcome of a race. I think it would have to be a race where no one but the bettors cared. My point is, why would I ever bet those type of races if I have this belief? Unless I'm invited to their meeting, I have no clue.

    So, if you have this strong belief, why would you play? Maybe they could let you select the program every once in a while. If so, how would you do it to guarantee yourself winning nearly every hand?

    The deck of cards presented to me is made of Ace thru King in each of the 4 suits. You are saying the cards are now put into a machine, then shuffled in a chronological order that knows just how to fuck you?
    I said they do it if and when they suspect an AP or if someone is winning too much. I did not say all the time. I think it happens at A casino, Ameristar in St. Louis. I don't know if others are doing it. I believe the technology exists and it's possible. Volkswagen and Audi cheated, the others did not.

    In any case, I play cause I am addicted, enjoy playing in casinos and have little else to do. I am not trying to make a living out of it. I had hoped to win maybe $10k a year to pay for a vacation but $1k is ok too. Otherwise, I would have changed my count, learned all the indexes and practice a lot (I never practice).

  6. #32


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    I said they do it if and when they suspect an AP or if someone is winning too much. I did not say all the time. I think it happens at A casino, Ameristar in St. Louis. I don't know if others are doing it. I believe the technology exists and it's possible. Volkswagen and Audi cheated, the others did not.

    In any case, I play cause I am addicted, enjoy playing in casinos and have little else to do. I am not trying to make a living out of it. I had hoped to win maybe $10k a year to pay for a vacation but $1k is ok too. Otherwise, I would have changed my count, learned all the indexes and practice a lot (I never practice).
    You'd be incorrect. If Ameristar STL suspects you to be an AP, they will just flat out tell you, then counter-measure you. I've literally had shift managers come up to my table, tell the entire table that they'd only deal .5 decks out of 2 because they have and advantage player at the table; then they walk away. I've also had them shuffle up on me when I was playing heads up.

    If they actually suspect you to be an AP, they're not not going to give out any subtle hints or program their shuffle machines to "clump cards." They're just going to two-round you, or deal out 1/2 deck.

  7. #33


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    OMG.

    I play HL Ameristar, and have NO reason to suspect clumping, cheating, or other voodoo at all. I am a lifetime winner there, but I have lost there too. In fact, I just had a pretty decent couple sessions there recently.

    Your advantage doesn't ramp as much at extremely high counts--the graph goes up slower. Playing efficiency becomes more important, and you're standing vs hitting on some weak stiff hands, say a 14 v A. (Especially if you don't know if there's and extra seven or two in that last half deck.)

    Just because you're sitting at a TC 8 doesn't guarantee a winning session. Likewise, I had some good variance on a -11 TC shoe, and made some money. (My protocol is to walk once I've lost 2 hands at -2, so I can say the table is unlucky. It's cover. But it never happened, and I won almost every hand in those crappy counts. I didn't complain...)


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  8. #34


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    People are naive if you don't believe there is cheating going on in some games. I've seen things 20 years ago and I've seen it in recent years. There used to be a casino that if the table was hot for the players the dealers were instructed to spill the cards after the cut was made. I've seen false shuffling dealers, I've seen cheating at Single deck. A good mechanic dealer is hard to detect and while I don't believe it is as rampant today but I assure you there are still some around.

  9. #35


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryemo View Post
    You'd be incorrect. If Ameristar STL suspects you to be an AP, they will just flat out tell you, then counter-measure you. I've literally had shift managers come up to my table, tell the entire table that they'd only deal .5 decks out of 2 because they have and advantage player at the table; then they walk away. I've also had them shuffle up on me when I was playing heads up.
    .
    I've had ploppies at the table complain about all of the undealt cards, that is that trusty half shoe. I've ecplained that it is simply a new casino policy of allowing the dealer additional time to interact with the players, thus grooming a more loyal account base. Some of them actually believe that bullshit.

  10. #36


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryemo View Post
    You'd be incorrect. If Ameristar STL suspects you to be an AP, they will just flat out tell you, then counter-measure you. I've literally had shift managers come up to my table, tell the entire table that they'd only deal .5 decks out of 2 because they have and advantage player at the table; then they walk away. I've also had them shuffle up on me when I was playing heads up.

    If they actually suspect you to be an AP, they're not not going to give out any subtle hints or program their shuffle machines to "clump cards." They're just going to two-round you, or deal out 1/2 deck.
    the point is that they do not have to check if you are an AP, do not have to upset big bettor ploppies. Say you are sitting at a table betting $25-$150 at a DD game and the ploppy is flat betting $200, they simply turn on a programmed ASM that affects the AP more than the flat betting ploppy. Count gets high, you bet more, the low cards keep coming. Another cut and the first round everyone gets big cards, count is negative and remains that way most of the time. Other options can be programmed.

    The idea that they can remove 2 cards, place face down, the ASM comes to a stop, they look at the window in the ASM and tell the two face down card denominations accurately when they test the ASM means that they also have the capacity to pre-program ASM's. Now, I agree that they are unlikely to do it most of the time but can do it if they suspect AP's
    .

  11. #37
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    This thread is in danger of jaundice.
    Last edited by Norm; 04-02-2017 at 07:30 AM.
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  12. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    the point is that they do not have to check if you are an AP, do not have to upset big bettor ploppies. Say you are sitting at a table betting $25-$150 at a DD game and the ploppy is flat betting $200, they simply turn on a programmed ASM that affects the AP more than the flat betting ploppy. Count gets high, you bet more, the low cards keep coming. Another cut and the first round everyone gets big cards, count is negative and remains that way most of the time. Other options can be programmed.

    The idea that they can remove 2 cards, place face down, the ASM comes to a stop, they look at the window in the ASM and tell the two face down card denominations accurately when they test the ASM means that they also have the capacity to pre-program ASM's. Now, I agree that they are unlikely to do it most of the time but can do it if they suspect AP's
    .
    Take a pill Dr Jekyll. Mr Hyde is coming out.

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    This thread is in danger of jaundiced.
    There. Now don't you feel better?

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