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Thread: When to wong out with Zen

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    Senior Member dharmaprija's Avatar
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    When to wong out with Zen

    Have switched over to the Zen count recently and ran into trouble finding a good rule of thumb for wonging out. As the count differs from Hi/lo (which i was accustomed to) what would be the best TC to wong out at?
    “The essence of independence has been to think and act according to standards from within, not without.”
    Aleister Crowley

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    I'd like to know why there is no index for surrendering against an Ace using Zen.

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    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    I exit the table at -14 Running. (on average that equates to -3.5 True). I put extra value on not exposing my lowest bet for extended periods of time therefore using a running count to exit makes it more likely I'll exit a shoe that goes negative early on....I don't mind making a few tiny bets to eat up cards (or just sit out the final couple of hands until the shuffle) in a modestly negative running count near the end of the shoe. If there is a shoe at a nearby table that is shuffled and already loaded or about to be loaded and ready to go I'm going to be far more likely to exit my current game even in a modestly negative count unless I've got a dealer giving exceptional above average penetration.

    Your exact table departure depends on two things...penetration (the deeper the pen the more that play-all becomes a possibility) and other open tables. Even with deep pen if there are other open tables it is to your benefit to move because sitting there making a long series of small bets is a huge time waster. Note, if there are other fresh shoes ready to go that you can move to your optimum wongout point late in a deeply cut shoe is actually at a positive count as a fresh shoe at TC = 0 is worth more than a shoe with 1 or 2 rounds left at +1.
    Last edited by bigplayer; 01-20-2013 at 04:43 PM.

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    Senior Member Goatlife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigplayer View Post
    I exit the table at -14 Running. (on average that equates to -3.5 True). I put extra value on not exposing my lowest bet for extended periods of time therefore using a running count to exit makes it more likely I'll exit a shoe that goes negative early on....I don't mind making a few tiny bets to eat up cards (or just sit out the final couple of hands until the shuffle) in a modestly negative running count near the end of the shoe. If there is a shoe at a nearby table that is shuffled and already loaded or about to be loaded and ready to go I'm going to be far more likely to exit my current game even in a modestly negative count unless I've got a dealer giving exceptional above average penetration.

    Your exact table departure depends on two things...penetration (the deeper the pen the more that play-all becomes a possibility) and other open tables. Even with deep pen if there are other open tables it is to your benefit to move because sitting there making a long series of small bets is a huge time waster. Note, if there are other fresh shoes ready to go that you can move to your optimum wongout point late in a deeply cut shoe is actually at a positive count as a fresh shoe at TC = 0 is worth more than a shoe with 1 or 2 rounds left at +1.
    this is exactly what i have been doing

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