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Thread: Dealer Peeking under Aces and/or Tens

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    Dealer Peeking under Aces and/or Tens

    Hello. I am so pleased to find this forum. I think you will understand why when you see the rest of this post. I have posted this question in a few general forums that have "random discussion" sections. But I have not received any answers. I suppose this question is very specific and it will really someone who is fairly knowledgeable about the game to answer it. OK. Here goes:


    My question concerns the Dealer "peeking" at their hole card (their card that is not visible) when their visible card is an Ace or a Ten.

    The books I've read tend to say casinos have an option. The "house rules" can have dealers always peek at their hole card or never peek. Most books seem to say that when the dealer peeks at their hole card, it is an advantage to the player.

    This seems to run contrary to common sense because if the dealer has more information as a result of peeking, it would seem to be an advantage to the dealer. I just can't be certain what is going on.

    I would really like to understand this aspect of the game. Why would this be an advantage for the player? The only reason I can think of is that if the dealer peeks at the hole card and sees they have Blackjack, they then terminate the play of the round immediately. In this way, players who also hold a Blackjack will tie and will not lose their wagers or any part of their wagers.

    However, if the dealer does not peek and allows the hand to be played out, then players who increase their initial bets due to splitting pairs or doubling will most certainly lose all the additional money they have wagered. If the round is played to completion, players can never win any money while the dealer holds a blackjack. But they will lose more than their original wagers - they will lose all the money they bet on splits or doubles.

    Can anyone tell me if this is the reason why it is an advantage to the players when the dealer peeks at the hole card? Or is there some other factors involved in this issue?

    Also, how does it work when the dealer's top card is a Ten (or Jack or Queen or King)? Doe the dealer always peek when their top card is a Ten as well as an Ace? Or can it be done different ways in different casinos?

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    Quick answer: your explanation is correct, provided the house rules stipulate that, when the dealer doesn't peek, the player "loses all" (additional bets) to the dealer's subsequent natural.

    Since the players are then aware of this, they don't make certain doubles or splits versus the dealer's ten and ace that they otherwise would make in a dealer-peeks game. Forfeiting those plays comes at a cost to the basic strategy player of 0.11% in a six-deck shoe game with typical rules. You will often see such as game referred to as ENHC, for European No Hole Card (rule), as this style of play is prevalent in Europe.

    Clear?

    Don

  3. #3
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    OP, are you talking about ENHC (non-US rules) or simply peeking or not peeking when a hole-card is dealt? Don answered the first question. For the second question (which is not common these days), it makes little difference as the dealer would not take the extra DD and split bets.

    As for the last question -- every variation you can think of and more exist.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Hello Norm,

    Thank you for your reply. I guess in order to find out what is done at any particular casino, I will have to ask a dealer. The reason I want to know however, is because I'm currently revamping my BJ simulation software and I want to provide people with the ability to use the most common casino options.

    When I made my OP I was brand new to the forum. I see now there are some similar threads in the Software forum.

    I downloaded the software from the link you provided. It's interesting how many of the functions they provide are similar or identical to the sim I created.

    However, I deleted the remainder of this post until I have a chance to examine the CVData Simulation more closely.
    Last edited by Skyler62; 02-24-2017 at 10:55 AM.

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    Thank you Don. I can see I have a lot to learn.

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    My understanding of today's game is that the dealer can only tell if it's a BJ or not when they peek, that the dealer does not know what card is in the hole. Thus, the dealer is in no position to know if the hole card is 10 or 5, only that it's not an Ace. I would guess this process is so dealer cannot communicate to player what the hole card is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    My understanding of today's game is that the dealer can only tell if it's a BJ or not when they peek, that the dealer does not know what card is in the hole. Thus, the dealer is in no position to know if the hole card is 10 or 5, only that it's not an Ace. I would guess this process is so dealer cannot communicate to player what the hole card is.
    To OP. There is a tangible answer and intangible answer. Don laid out the tangible which is like 95% of the advantage. There is an intangible though which not everyone can utilize. Sometimes you can use Psychology to tell if your hand can beat the dealers. This pertains only when the dealer has a 10, checks, and does NOT have an ace. However they do know what they have and if you know the dealer s tendencies well you can use that. Particularly if you must hit, the dealer will then call out your new total. Using her voice you can get a tell as to whether it's enough or not. It's basically playing poker at the blackjack table. Not at all easy to do.

    Sent from my SM-G935S using Tapatalk

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    In most casinos these days, the dealer only knows there is no ace when she peaks with a ten up. She does not know the value of the card.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Quote Originally Posted by gm7lp View Post
    To OP. There is a tangible answer and intangible answer. Don laid out the tangible which is like 95% of the advantage. There is an intangible though which not everyone can utilize. Sometimes you can use Psychology to tell if your hand can beat the dealers. This pertains only when the dealer has a 10, checks, and does NOT have an ace. However they do know what they have and if you know the dealer s tendencies well you can use that. Particularly if you must hit, the dealer will then call out your new total. Using her voice you can get a tell as to whether it's enough or not. It's basically playing poker at the blackjack table. Not at all easy to do.

    Sent from my SM-G935S using Tapatalk
    Norm answered it politely for me. I don't know what "tell" you can use when dealer has no idea what is in the hole card. These days, they cannot see the hole card. Maybe you are having good variance with imaginary tells, lol!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Norm answered it politely for me. I don't know what "tell" you can use when dealer has no idea what is in the hole card. These days, they cannot see the hole card. Maybe you are having good variance with imaginary tells, lol!
    If there is no peeker, then dealer must manually check. That is where you may get a tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Norm answered it politely for me. I don't know what "tell" you can use when dealer has no idea what is in the hole card. These days, they cannot see the hole card. Maybe you are having good variance with imaginary tells, lol!
    Maybe you haven't played enough. In some casinos they do not have a machine which signals a blackjack and the dealer must manually peek. Hence the original term "peek". Therefore it may be possible to tell from some individuals. Have fun with your imaginary wins and try to play in more than one casino. It's a big world out there little zee^^

    Sent from my SM-G935S using Tapatalk

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Let's be polite people.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Let's be polite people.
    Agreed

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