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Thread: Professional advice on DD bet spread..

  1. #1


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    Professional advice on DD bet spread..

    If you went to Vegas and MO, played strictly $25 minimum DD games, played 2 hands (except on extreme negative hands) and bet 2 x $25 to 2 x $125 and won consistently using HiLo and I-18 (plus a few) but now you are facing a DD game where you have to place double the minimum to play 2 hands, where you can only start with two hands (no NMSE, so you cannot start with one, go to two hands or when you go to one hand, you can return to two) but the pen is around 70-80%....what are the options..

    I am not comfortable creasing my max bet over 2 x $150.

    1. Play just ne hand, spreading $25-$150.

    2. Start with 2 x $50, drop to one hand of $25 after the first round if neutral or negative TC and stay with one hand.

    My concern is that betting 2 x $50 to start is a negative that cannot be overcome with a max bet of 2 x $150.

    Suggestions?

  2. #2


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    Variance will increase and the cscore will drop. If you are not comfortable upping the max bet then just play one hand and make sure conditions are good

    Do you have CVCX? A simple sim will answer these questions.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Bubbles's Avatar
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    Stick with one hand. I can't see you emotionally and mentally being able to successfully play two hands at this game yet. You have a hard enough time putting your normal max out there. Increasing your average minimum bet will hurt your game more. If you get to where you can put your max bets out there and play them correctly, then starting off the top with two would be OK. Your score is already compromised by your max bet playing and betting decisions, it doesn't need to be decreased further. The added variance would not be good on your psyche either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix View Post
    Stick with one hand. I can't see you emotionally and mentally being able to successfully play two hands at this game yet. You have a hard enough time putting your normal max out there. Increasing your average minimum bet will hurt your game more. If you get to where you can put your max bets out there and play them correctly, then starting off the top with two would be OK. Your score is already compromised by your max bet playing and betting decisions, it doesn't need to be decreased further. The added variance would not be good on your psyche either.

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    in the particular small city casino, few folks play the one DD game and max bet exceeding $200 draws huge Pit attention. The same rule also happens in Tunica.

    I am am thinking that if I play 2 x $50 as long as the count stays positive TC+1 or neutral, drop to one hand of $25 at negative count, play 2 x $100 at TC +2, 2 x $150 at TC3 and higher, I should come out ahead.

  5. #5


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    It still may win money but it will not be as good as your earlier spread. You won't be putting out more money on max bets so you are worse off overall. You would be taking on much more variance for no real gain. Also I wouldn't recommend dropping hands after first round like a robot. I think you will be playing that 2x50 min bet into negative counts more than you think. I think one hand with a fast dealer and keep the table from getting crowded out will have better results. Size your 1 hand spread to get your EV and risk where you want it. Even if 200$ draws attention... you still may be better off playing this way with slightly less EV. Your score will be higher meaning you will reach expectation faster.

    If you can find a lower limit table like 10 or 15$ then double the min bet put your in a better position.

  6. #6
    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    Stick to one hand maybe spread to two hands in a + count only if you're losing and planning to leave after that shuffle anyway. 1-5 isn't enough of a spread to beat a double deck game anyway. You'd be better off playing shoes spreading 1x$10 to 2x$125 playing like a robot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    If you went to Vegas and MO, played strictly $25 minimum DD games,....using HiLo and I-18 (plus a few) but now you ...have to place double the minimum to play 2 hands, where you can only start with two hands (no NMSE, so you cannot start with one, go to two hands or when you go to one hand, you can return to two) but the pen is around 70-80%....what are the options..

    I am not comfortable creasing my max bet over 2 x $150....
    you will likely get killed 2x50 to 2x150 in dd w/ I18...better have a damn big roll on you

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    ...Play just ne hand, spreading $25-$150....
    ditto here...this spread is 'child's play'

    what is your experience with heat?....NOT perceived, but actual?

    my suggestions:

    -don't play rated

    -play only 1 $25 min hand

    -spread to $400, minimally

    -hi lo WILL get you $$$....while not ideal in dd, will get the dough...regardless of what these assclowns tell you

    -dd is extremely volatile...learn many more index plays...particularly negs.....what is neg in dd could very soon be poss...and cannot get back in

    -whether you spead to 6 or 16...you will get caught...make it worth your while

    I get most of my 'fun', win or lose, from pressing limits at new places....everyone here has their own 'perceived' tolerance levels....here's an idea...try finding out what they ACTUALLY are

    best

    Sharky

  8. #8


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    You don't really want to be spreading to two hands anyway it is generally better to keep your number of hands constant (or to change once in a while but not constantly in an easily observable pattern). So just stick to 1 hand. It really doesn't make much difference if you play one hand or two hands anyway especially if you are heads up. The only really clear cut cases where two hands is better is if you are scraping the table max and want to get more action in play per round or if you are at a crowded table (when you shouldn't even be playing crowded tables in the first place). But your bet sizing really should be determined by your bankroll and your advantage, not by the table minimum.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    "1 to 8?"
    1-8 (2 X 4) is much quicker to draw heat than spreading 8-1 vertically.

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by Meistro123 View Post
    You don't really want to be spreading to two hands anyway it is generally better to keep your number of hands constant (or to change once in a while but not constantly in an easily observable pattern). So just stick to 1 hand. It really doesn't make much difference if you play one hand or two hands anyway especially if you are heads up. The only really clear cut cases where two hands is better is if you are scraping the table max and want to get more action in play per round or if you are at a crowded table (when you shouldn't even be playing crowded tables in the first place). But your bet sizing really should be determined by your bankroll and your advantage, not by the table minimum.
    There was something in the archives that playing 2 hands is always better than playing one hand. In case of heads up and positive counts, is it not better to play two hands as your chances of BJ are better? Logic would suggest that playing one hand is better in negative counts and multiple hands is better in positive counts. Am I wrong about this?

  11. #11


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    So let's say you are betting $100 or 2 x 75. Let's assume advantage stays constant at 2%. Average hand is 2.5 cards and there are 30 cards left to be dealt. Playing 1 hand means you will have 6 rounds x 100 = 600 in action * 2% = $12 in EV. Playing two hands means $150 in action * 4 rounds = 600 in action * 2% = $12 in EV.

    Yes, you are wrong. It really does not make much of a difference if you play 1 hand or 2. Potentially 2 rounds of 2 hands (15 cards) might take less time to complete than 3 rounds of 1 hand (15 cards), which case you would be able to get in more action over a given time period, which is advantageous. I usually play two hands.

    In some situations it is more clear cut. At a crowded table in a high count you want to play 2 or 3 or more hands. At a table with a "high" table minimum one hand is much better, especially if you are attacking this game with a low spread and aggressive wong out, which can be quite viable.
    Last edited by Meistro123; 02-24-2017 at 09:01 PM.

  12. #12


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    "Yes, you are wrong. It really does not make much of a difference if you play 1 hand or 2. Potentially 2 rounds of 2 hands (15 cards) might take less time to complete than 3 rounds of 1 hand (15 cards), which case you would be able to get in more action over a given time period, which is advantageous. I usually play two hands.

    In some situations it is more clear cut. At a crowded table in a high count you want to play 2 or 3 or more hands. At a table with a "high" table minimum one hand is much better, especially if you are attacking this game with a low spread and aggressive wong out, which can be quite viable.[/QUOTE]

    Maestro, this is good learning for me. Now, my thought was that even in heads up play, by playing 2 hands in positive decks, I was getting more of the big cards than the dealer because I was receiving two hands to his one. Another thought was that if the cut card in a DD game was going to come out and it's a positive deck, why not go deeper into the deck by having two hands playing?

    I wonder if Norm, Don or others would also comment on this.

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    e.
    Maestro, this is good learning for me. Now, my thought was that even in heads up play, by playing 2 hands in positive decks, I was getting more of the big cards than the dealer because I was receiving two hands to his one. Another thought was that if the cut card in a DD game was going to come out and it's a positive deck, why not go deeper into the deck by having two hands playing?

    I wonder if Norm, Don or others would also comment on this.[/QUOTE]

    The general idea of 2 hands is that by covariance, you reduce your per hand bet by a factor. EV essentially remains the same with reduced variance. So, with 2 hands in high counts, provided your bankroll can handle it, why not play your single hand max on both hands. Variance goes up, but so does EV.

    Also, your thought of jumping to 2 hands right before the cut card in high counts is a good one (heart notwithstanding) know where you are, and where the cut card is, and you're in business. I do it frequently. The more hands played at high counts, the better off you will be, and this is one strategy of achieving that goal.

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