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Thread: Opinions please

  1. #1


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    Opinions please

    I've always, regardless of wins or losses, made sure I stayed under Government reporting requirements. I walked into a store where im known, but have never showed ID. They could easily find out more about me if they so desired - maybe they have - don't know.

    This has never happened before. Bought in for 500 with a heads up table. By midway thru the second shoe, I've determined that I might push that 9k (in my jurisdiction) envelope. Everything, like you wouldn't believe, is going right. I don't want to report if I don't have to, so, if I do, then the question becomes - how far past the threshold can I blast to make reporting worthwhile. I don't want to quit this monster.

    Right or wrong, I decided as follows - since the end total result is still unknown. I made sure if exactly where I was at money wise. I scaled back my bets to less than half of what they should have been, with the further decision of super watch on the cut card, prepared to lose intentionally the last hand or 2, if necessary. I stayed under.

    Winning, is of course, important. Maximizing EV to the extreme, is not , at least for me.
    Thoughts?

    Had I not made the decision, result would have taken me over threshold by around 2k - was 500 under.
    Last edited by Freightman; 02-12-2017 at 12:21 PM. Reason: Add last line

  2. #2
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    Cannot be an issue unless you craft a self-defeating problem.
    Simply do NOT cash out and there shall be no problem for you.
    I rarely cash out any large amount of chips.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post

    Cannot be an issue unless you craft a self-defeating problem.
    Simply do NOT cash out and there shall be no problem for you.
    I rarely cash out any large amount of chips.
    The issue was not the casino per se - I really want to stay out if Government gun sights.

  4. #4


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    yeah I don't think that is how it works. Casinos by law are required to track and report 10k cash outs (cumulative in 24 hour period), not wins or losses. They will of course track your wins and losses for their own internal purposes.

  5. #5
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    Meistro is (essentially) correct.

    Canada uses a minimum figure of CA$9,000.

    Your cumulative win is a REAL concern.

    The government reporting is IMAGINARY.

  6. #6
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    Opinions please

    Not sure if your outside the US, but it seems that you are... As far as inside the US goes, cash transactions exceeding $10,000 are the only thing that can and have to be reported (minus suspicious transactions or SAR's). The key word here being "cash". Winning chips can not be reported. So as Zen stated before, structure your cash outs to be less than a total daily "out" transaction of $10,000. Same goes for "in" or buy ins. Something to take note of is that cash ins and cash outs are completely independent. Also, every casino varies in the time for which they start their 24-hour work day. One casino may begin at 4:30 AM and another may begin at 2:00 AM. And casinos switch these times every couple of years to avoid and deter money laundering. An estimate of when each casino turns the clock to the next day is when the graveyard shift counts their bankrolls the first time. Give or take a half hour or so.


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    Last edited by RobinHood21; 02-12-2017 at 04:12 PM.

  7. #7


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    Meistro is (essentially) correct.

    Canada uses a minimum figure of CA$9,000.
    As per government of canada website the figure is $10,000 although some casinos do request ID for significantly smaller cashouts.

    http://www.fintrac.gc.ca/reporting-d...ptLCTR-eng.asp

    Casino Regina, which holds the dubious honour of having one of the few if not the only ENHC game in North America, has a signed posted claiming they will ask for ID for 3k cash out or higher.

  8. #8
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    What is best is purposely generating C.T.R.'s at your bank.
    I do so quite often at my F.C.U. (Federal Credit Union) and
    I make sure that the manager knows that I am a casino
    habitué. I learned this from a wealthy (and brilliant) close
    friend of mine. I have been doing this for many years, as
    has he; and I guess that over the years I have had perhaps
    45 to 50 C.T.R.'s filed by casinos.

    It ought to be obvious to you, the reader, that if you can
    demonstrate a willingness to have many C.T.R.'s, structuring
    becomes a non-isssue.

    Note: Besides the Federal Guidelines for C.T.R. / S.T.R. states
    also have their guidelines. e.g. in New York State it is $8,000,
    not $10,000.

  9. #9
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    Opinions please

    Another important note I forgot to mention... SAR's are very similar to being BO'ed. It takes human judgement to produce. Humans have a tendency to be lazy (as SAR forms are long, in depth and tedious to complete). Casino employees, even management, are generally lazy.

    Some examples that would trigger SAR's...
    1. Buying in a large amount and playing minimal. Example. $500 buy in and a $5 wager. In the pit most people that buy $500 worth of chips are going to play green.
    2. Consistently coming close to the $10,000 CTR threshold.


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  10. #10


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    IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CHIPS WON BUT HOW MUCH YOU CASH OUT , sorry for the cap . didn't bother to check .

  11. #11
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    Or how much you buy in for in total in a day.

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post

    Cannot be an issue unless you craft a self-defeating problem.
    Simply do NOT cash out and there shall be no problem for you.
    I rarely cash out any large amount of chips.
    I've seen guys before try go bypass this issue as you've mentioned. The pit knows, no cashout = no ID = no play. Not an option.

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post

    Meistro is (essentially) correct.

    Canada uses a minimum figure of CA$9,000.

    Your cumulative win is a REAL concern.

    The government reporting is IMAGINARY.

    Unfortunately, both Maestro and you are wrong, at least for this jurisdiction, or casino personnel have it wrong. They have screwed up the which 24 hour period applies. The 9or 10k buy in is obvious. Now, for a shout, different stores seem to be doung it differently. When they know you're over 9 or 10 k in chips, they want ID.

    Now, to clarify the 9 or 10k - Fin Cen doesn't care about 9k. That's a new gaming requirement which requires ID for a given period of time - I have to recheck as to what it is. The 10k is Fin Cen, subject to entire,y different rules. I know a counter who had a 10 k win in that city, did not cash out. He was asked ID on his next visit. When he refused, he was not allowed to play, the 10k win being cited.

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