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Thread: OSN and cheating

  1. #14
    Member rxgamble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    I don't know much at all about hole carding. My understanding is that it's possible to spot the hole card based upon two or three things. One is when, due to poor dealer skills, the hole card could be seen (usually from first base) and another is when a partner or someone standing or sitting elsewhere (another nearby table) Ivan see and signals a player as to what he sees as the hole card.

    Thus, I don't understand how you can be backed off or called a cheater because you were able to see the holecard and why that cannot be handled by simply removing the dealer (send him for extra training or firing him)and sending another to a table. Basically, I thought hole carding was probably due to correctable dealer skills and could be eliminated without need to back off anyone.

    Maybe its the card counting that got him in trouble.
    Getting the holecard when not seated at the flashing dealer’s table and sending the info to a BP is called spooking and it’s very much illegal, don’t do it. I’ve passed up many of those spots. Not worth it.
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  2. #15


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    Quote Originally Posted by rxgamble View Post
    Getting the holecard when not seated at the flashing dealer’s table and sending the info to a BP is called spooking and it’s very much illegal, don’t do it. I’ve passed up many of those spots. Not worth it.
    Can you provide reference or information that spooking is "very much illegal"

  3. #16


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    Here is link mentioning that spooking will get your arrested.
    https://www.countingedge.com/what-is-hole-carding/

  4. #17


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    Quote Originally Posted by Banker View Post
    Can you provide reference or information that spooking is "very much illegal"
    I am curious about this as well...

    The Nevada Supreme Court decision didn't issue a specific decision on "spooking".

    I always thought it was a gray area that would carry less protection under the Einbinder and Dalben decision vs. being seated at the table in which the cards are being observed.
    Last edited by BankerCA; 10-19-2019 at 09:58 PM. Reason: spelling

  5. #18


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    Quote Originally Posted by BankerCA View Post
    I am curious about this a well...

    The Nevada Supreme Court decision didn't issue a specific decision on "spooking".

    I always thought it was a gray area that would carry less protection under the Einbinder and Dalben decision vs. being seated at the table in which the cards are being observed.
    Sounds like a good question to send into GWAE for Bob N's next appearance.

  6. #19
    Senior Member Goatlife's Avatar
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    maybe you should tell these to all the one card baccarrat teams popping up

  7. #20
    Member rxgamble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallcapgrowth View Post
    maybe you should tell these to all the one card baccarrat teams popping up
    Dunno tracking it at the table and having a BP come in doesn’t sound like what I described, unless you’re talking about another 1 card bacc game.
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  8. #21
    Member rxgamble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BankerCA View Post
    I am curious about this a well...

    The Nevada Supreme Court decision didn't issue a specific decision on "spooking".

    I always thought it was a gray area that would carry less protection under the Einbinder and Dalben decision vs. being seated at the table in which the cards are being observed.
    I don’t have anything in front of me but isn’t holecarding legal because all the info is available to everyone at the table, or some other, better wording of that? At least that’s the spirit of the ruling as I’ve always believed after reading for myself and talking to lawyers.
    rxgamble.com

  9. #22


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    Quote Originally Posted by rxgamble View Post
    I don’t have anything in front of me but isn’t holecarding legal because all the info is available to everyone at the table, or some other, better wording of that?
    Yes, that is the gist of it. The decision is based on the player simply using the "Powers of Observation" that would have been available to any player in that seat.

    Would the court had a different opinion if the "Powers of Observation" were used from across the room?
    What about laying your head horizontally 1" from the felt?

    Its Possible.

    The LINE is drawn somewhere. Where that LINE lays is often a matter of opinion until a decision is issued by a court and case law is established.


    It would be my assumption that most lawyers would advise against "Spooking" since to my knowledge there has been no specific case law that specifically addresses it.

    In a state that gets a large portion of its income from the gambling industry, it wouldn't surprise to see the District Attorney bring charges for "spooking".



    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    Sounds like a good question to send into GWAE for Bob N's next appearance.
    Yeah, I would be curious as to what he has to say.
    Last edited by BankerCA; 10-19-2019 at 10:04 PM.

  10. #23


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    Bottom line... Don't spook. I have seen games where the hole card could be read when not at the table. Just don't do it.
    "I think, therfore I can't play blackjack."
    Arnold Snyder, Blackbelt in Blackjack pg. 229 (2005)

  11. #24


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    The last time I was at the strip. Saw a couple of spooking games. Good luck to those brave enough to try it.
    "I think, therfore I can't play blackjack."
    Arnold Snyder, Blackbelt in Blackjack pg. 229 (2005)

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