Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 24

Thread: OSN and cheating

  1. #1


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    OSN and cheating

    My buddy does hole carding and card counting. He got caught hole carding a carnival game. Gaming arrested him and took him to the back room. They held him for 4 hours.

    They finally released him. They put him in OSN as a legit cheater. How will this label in OSN affect his future play?

    He has done some counting since, but is afraid to do any more hole carding.

    (Please, no legal advice here. Hes taking care of that. Just wants to know how this will affect his future play as being labelled a cheater in osn... he isnt subscribed to here, hence me posting on his behalf.)
    May the Variance be with you.

  2. #2


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I don't know much at all about hole carding. My understanding is that it's possible to spot the hole card based upon two or three things. One is when, due to poor dealer skills, the hole card could be seen (usually from first base) and another is when a partner or someone standing or sitting elsewhere (another nearby table) Ivan see and signals a player as to what he sees as the hole card.

    Thus, I don't understand how you can be backed off or called a cheater because you were able to see the holecard and why that cannot be handled by simply removing the dealer (send him for extra training or firing him)and sending another to a table. Basically, I thought hole carding was probably due to correctable dealer skills and could be eliminated without need to back off anyone.

    Maybe its the card counting that got him in trouble.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    heaven or hell
    Posts
    243


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by blueman View Post
    My buddy does hole carding and card counting. He got caught hole carding a carnival game. Gaming arrested him and took him to the back room. They held him for 4 hours.

    They finally released him. They put him in OSN as a legit cheater. How will this label in OSN affect his future play?

    He has done some counting since, but is afraid to do any more hole carding.

    (Please, no legal advice here. Hes taking care of that. Just wants to know how this will affect his future play as being labelled a cheater in osn... he isnt subscribed to here, hence me posting on his behalf.)
    I don't think it would cause any problems in U.S. casinos moreso than being in Osn to begin with but in other countries it might be a concern,if in fact they did label him as a cheater.
    Last edited by AndretheGiant; 01-22-2017 at 12:18 AM.

  4. #4


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Hes gotten backed off from blackjack with no problems, just gun shy to hole card again

  5. #5


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    1. Although you request no legal discussion, as she/he has already addressed that, I hope that means she/he has contacted, and is retaining legal counsel.

    2. This fact situation definitely gives rise to analysis by his/her attorney as to whether the involved parties (the casino, the gaming commission, and OSN) engaged in a bevy of torts, ranging from false imprisonment, battery, libel, just to identify the most obvious. I will refrain from further legal discussion, other than to note it is highly likely, based upon the limited facts you shared (assuming those are accurately portrayed), that your friend has a pretty decent set of claims for litigation.

    3. I would also expect that your friend may be counselled to play at another casino that uses OSN's services, as a back-off or trespass there, will add additional claims and potential deep pockets for a jury verdict (think libel and defamation of character, and interference with contract, or in some jurisdictions, with advantageous economic opportunities).

    My apologies if I commented about legal issues, but your ultimate question begs for the consequences of OSN's determination and citing of her/him as a "cheater" in their database and reports. In this instance she/he may very well be financially impacted by such labeling when visiting other casinos, but OSN should likewise suffer consequences for their distribution of such labelling of your friend.
    Last edited by Frank Galvin; 01-22-2017 at 06:08 AM.
    "Your honor, with all due respect: if you're going to try my case for me, I wish you wouldn't lose it."

    Fictitious Boston Attorney Frank Galvin (Paul Newman - January 26, 1925 - September 26, 2008) in The Verdict, 1982, lambasting Trial Judge Hoyle (Milo Donal O'Shea - June 2, 1926 - April 2, 2013) - http://imdb.com/title/tt0084855/

  6. #6
    Banned or Suspended
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Eastern U S A
    Posts
    6,830


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    I accept whatever Frank Galvin says when it comes to legal matters.

    However, I cannot imagine why the casino is unidentified.

    Is it a Native American enterprise, as I strongly suspect ?

    If so, the victim is without legal resource; except in the odd

    case (e.g. Seminole Casinos) Native American sovereignty rules.

    Last edited by ZenMaster_Flash; 01-22-2017 at 09:03 AM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    3rd rock from Sol, Milky Way Galaxy
    Posts
    14,158


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    I accept whatever Frank Galvin says when it comes to legal matters.

    However, I cannot imagine why the casino is unidentified.

    Is it a Native American enterprise, as I strongly suspect ?

    If so, the victim is without legal resource.

    Accept in the odd case (e.g. Seminole Casinos) sovereignty rules.
    As the self-appointed official grammar and spelling police for the site, Don is going to have a field day with this post.

  8. #8
    Banned or Suspended
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Eastern U S A
    Posts
    6,830


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No


    My typo corrected, thanx to T3;
    who rarely proof-reads his posts. L.O.L.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    3rd rock from Sol, Milky Way Galaxy
    Posts
    14,158


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    My typo corrected, thanx to T3;
    who rarely proof-reads his posts. L.O.L.
    A field day implied more than one error except in case of severe error. Think homophones. Can you accept that?

  10. #10
    Banned or Suspended
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Eastern U S A
    Posts
    6,830


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No


    O.K. Professor. "Homophone" corrected now.
    But, not to put too sharp a point on it, there
    was no homophone as the words are NOT
    pronounced identically. [e.g. affect and effect.]

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    3rd rock from Sol, Milky Way Galaxy
    Posts
    14,158


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    O.K. Professor. "Homophone" corrected now.
    But, not to put too sharp a point on it, there
    was no homophone as the words are NOT
    pronounced identically. [e.g. affect and effect.]
    I know that. The clue was think homophone not look for a homophone. LoL

  12. #12


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    OSN does not use the word cheating. Following the lawsuit against Griffin, databases will not use such descriptions. If he was hole carding, they would say he was hole carding.

  13. #13


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Excerpt from CAA on the subject:


    "In a jury trial that lasted two weeks. including testimony from Grosjean and Russo, Bob and Beverly
    Griffin, and well-respected industry expert Bill Zender, who testified that the players were clearly
    just using legal hole-card techniques , the Caesars attorneys introduced the first edition of Beyond
    Counting as evidence. The court labeled the book "Exhibit CAA" (the letter C to indicate that the
    defendant Caesars introduced the evidence , and AA because it was the first exhibit ).

    The casino industry begrudgingly admits that the techniques presented in this book are legal,
    though they wish otherwise . This material is central to the ongoing war between casinos and
    advantage players, which is detailed further in Bob Nersesian 's book , Beat the Players."


    In response to the impact on future play, I do not believe it to be any different than his entry in OSN from card counting. OSN, as a technical facility, is rudimentary at best and it is highly unlikely you will be identified by surveillance UNLESS THEY HAVE YOUR NAME! Be more concerned with facial recognition systems that identify you before you get to a game. Now if the entry into OSN is being transferred to facial recognition by those casinos that have the facility, then your risk of identity is much higher at those casinos.

    The description you posted is much like the conditions many of the successful lawsuits have prosecuted. If you were on an Indian property, your chance of winning a legal action diminishes. IMHO, I would present information to Nersesian and follow his advice.

    Best of Luck
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Are they cheating me??
    By GOGETER10 in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 09-20-2019, 07:02 PM
  2. cheating dealer
    By steveistheman84 in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 08-30-2018, 04:39 AM
  3. Art of Cheating
    By Norm in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-31-2015, 02:59 PM
  4. Nick: Cheating
    By Nick in forum Las Vegas Everything
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-28-2005, 04:29 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.