Does no comp offer mean?

[ZeeBabar]

In my 3rd year, playing rated. I had started getting regular comps (hotel rooms) and material/coupons in the mail from Pinnacle properties (Ameristar, horseshoe), Hollywood casinos, M-Life etc. However, the first two seemed to have stopped sending me mailers about 2 months ago. I called today to book a room for midweek in January but they checked, said I did not have any comp offers. They offered a room at their so called best rate which is still $89 a night. Wierd!

I was under the assumption that the number of hours and size of bets that determined comps but perhaps the fact that I had not lost in my last couple of trips to those properties may have been the reason. Another could be that they might have figured me out. After 2+ years of spreading with the count but keeping max bet to under $200, I had been assuming my act had them peg me as a loser but maybe they took a closer look.

I have never played any other game or slots, period. Only BJ.

So now, on my next trip, should I refuse to hand in my card? They all know I have a card. To this date, I have not seen them take any counter measures at the table so maybe I should pretend nothing has changed, use my card and keep spread moderate, make a cover play or two? Comments?

[ZenMaster_Flash]

I have seen this on the East Coast.

The latest casino tactic has been to drive off suspected card counters by no longer sending mailers.
The next step is they will keep your comp points set to zero and no points may be earned. At that
point the amateur Counter either (finally) "gets the message", or on occasion, they (foolishly) demand
to speak to the Shift Manager. If that occurs, the S. M. will either bar your BJ play permanently or will
delegate the uncomfortable authority to a lesser.

[bigplayer]

What Flash says could be very true. Could also be, depending on when your last trip was, that your offers died out naturally. Most casinos base their offers on your Average Daily Theoretical Earnings Potential on a rolling average from the last 3 to 6 months (or a certain number of trips). If you go a certain time frame without play your offers just die out.

[ZeeBabar]

What Flash says could be very true. Could also be, depending on when your last trip was, that your offers died out naturally. Most casinos base their offers on your Average Daily Theoretical Earnings Potential on a rolling average from the last 3 to 6 months (or a certain number of trips). If you go a certain time frame without play your offers just die out.

I don't know. I did skip playing there last month, maybe 6 weeks. Pinnacle had comped me a room during Thanksgiving but I just played an hour there, won a bit and assumed I would lose future comps if I won too much, thus did not play there. This leads to a question. What matters most? Is it hours played or the results of playing? That is, are you better of keeping your win low ev n if it means playing an hour or do you play more hours and the wins don't matter?

[RS]

I don't know. I did skip playing there last month, maybe 6 weeks. Pinnacle had comped me a room during Thanksgiving but I just played an hour there, won a bit and assumed I would lose future comps if I won too much, thus did not play there. This leads to a question. What matters most? Is it hours played or the results of playing? That is, are you better of keeping your win low ev n if it means playing an hour or do you play more hours and the wins don't matter?

Some properties it's based more so on losses and others on theo. If you played a short while, won a decent amount and quit, no way to tell if it's based on actual (since you won) or played a short while.

What do you value more?

[Exoter175]

In my 3rd year, playing rated. I had started getting regular comps (hotel rooms) and material/coupons in the mail from Pinnacle properties (Ameristar, horseshoe), Hollywood casinos, M-Life etc. However, the first two seemed to have stopped sending me mailers about 2 months ago. I called today to book a room for midweek in January but they checked, said I did not have any comp offers. They offered a room at their so called best rate which is still $89 a night. Wierd!

I was under the assumption that the number of hours and size of bets that determined comps but perhaps the fact that I had not lost in my last couple of trips to those properties may have been the reason. Another could be that they might have figured me out. After 2+ years of spreading with the count but keeping max bet to under $200, I had been assuming my act had them peg me as a loser but maybe they took a closer look.

I have never played any other game or slots, period. Only BJ.

So now, on my next trip, should I refuse to hand in my card? They all know I have a card. To this date, I have not seen them take any counter measures at the table so maybe I should pretend nothing has changed, use my card and keep spread moderate, make a cover play or two? Comments?

You play mostly in Missouri, though, don't you? You literally have legislation protecting you there, so it is incredibly unlikely that they pulled an offer from you because you're a suspected card counter, and if you've been going for 2+ years now, it would have been done long before this.

This has very much to do with the results that went into their system and nothing more. Without a full working knowledge of how their system works, you're going to run into a few question marks here and there that don't quite make sense to you. I know exactly what happened, or thereabouts, do you have a throwaway email I can contact you with?

I have seen this on the East Coast.

The latest casino tactic has been to drive off suspected card counters by no longer sending mailers.
The next step is they will keep your comp points set to zero and no points may be earned. At that
point the amateur Counter either (finally) "gets the message", or on occasion, they (foolishly) demand
to speak to the Shift Manager. If that occurs, the S. M. will either bar your BJ play permanently or will
delegate the uncomfortable authority to a lesser.

This isn't "latest" at all, its been a "thing" for a long time Flash. This situation with Zee is much different, and its not really a "negative" one, as much as its a marker for a much bigger portion of his game not being exploited to its potential.

What Flash says could be very true. Could also be, depending on when your last trip was, that your offers died out naturally. Most casinos base their offers on your Average Daily Theoretical Earnings Potential on a rolling average from the last 3 to 6 months (or a certain number of trips). If you go a certain time frame without play your offers just die out.

This is very solid, but it is just the tip of an iceberg that most of us never get to fully examine, and I've spent the better part of 3 years learning, probing, and understanding. There's so much more than meets the eye in regards to casino marketing software, systems, and analytics.

I don't know. I did skip playing there last month, maybe 6 weeks. Pinnacle had comped me a room during Thanksgiving but I just played an hour there, won a bit and assumed I would lose future comps if I won too much, thus did not play there. This leads to a question. What matters most? Is it hours played or the results of playing? That is, are you better of keeping your win low ev n if it means playing an hour or do you play more hours and the wins don't matter?

That's a question many will guess at, and only a few truly know the answer to. I doubt there's anyone more qualified than I to answer it from this forum, but I wouldn't dare discuss it publicly. Both you and bigplayer are close, but both of your understanding's are off a touch, and you aren't seeing the much bigger picture. Shoot me an email address I can message you with.

Some properties it's based more so on losses and others on theo. If you played a short while, won a decent amount and quit, no way to tell if it's based on actual (since you won) or played a short while.

What do you value more?

No. All properties are based on losses AND theo. Both are tracked, both are equally weighted into the algorithms, and there's at least 17 other variables you're not factoring in that account for so much more weight in the algorithm than you're focusing on. Losses and Theo are amateur level analytics that are in retrospect, so worthless towards casino offers that they allow the manual entry of the lowest paid employees in the company. That is not to say that there is no value in theo and losses, there certainly is and to a degree they CAN mean more than other variables, but they most commonly do not carry as much weight as you're giving them.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

In New Jersey one cannot be barred as a Card Counter, but counter-measures
will make your game unplayable. That is where none of the casinos will let me
play with comps earned or mailers sent. All of the casinos started doing that
(to me) quite a few years ago. There is no reason that Missouri would do it any
differently.

[Exoter175]

In New Jersey one cannot be barred as a Card Counter, but counter-measures
will make your game unplayable. That is where none of the casinos will let me
play with comps earned or mailers sent. All of the casinos started doing that
(to me) quite a few years ago. There is no reason that Missouri would do it any
differently.

Correct, but that is not the case here.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

"Correct, but that is not the case here."

How so ?

[All Clear]

There is one store in Atlantic City in which my comp dollars are always gone the next time I arrive- and I almost always have zero in comps right after playing. What I started doing, especially if there is a loss in the session, is after playing for 90 - 120 minutes, a half hour after cashing out my chips, I return to the table, and ask the floor why I have no comp dollars after playing such a large session. In the past, the majority of the time, the floor (not knowing the whole story, I guess), has printed out a $25 (or on occasion, $50) food voucher for me to use (with an apology that I somehow don't have any comp dollars, after playing for such a long time, with a reasonable average bet).

A note that there are no countermeasures taken at this place against me- other than getting no offers, no comp dollars, and the like.

[Exoter175]

How so ?

Because that's simply not the case here? There's no mention of any "issue" on his end, and he's been going for years. This reads exactly like a typical "why has my casino stopped comping me as much as I used to" complaint that you'll read on any gambling forum. It doesn't, however, read like a back-off scenario. Never assume the worst with a casino until you've had an encounter with them first. 99 times out of 100 its because of the players' misunderstanding of how the marketing system works, and how the software calculates their offer, and more, whether the information entered in via the personnel is accurately done/tracked when playing rated.

There is one store in Atlantic City in which my comp dollars are always gone the next time I arrive- and I almost always have zero in comps right after playing. What I started doing, especially if there is a loss in the session, is after playing for 90 - 120 minutes, a half hour after cashing out my chips, I return to the table, and ask the floor why I have no comp dollars after playing such a large session. In the past, the majority of the time, the floor (not knowing the whole story, I guess), has printed out a $25 (or on occasion, $50) food voucher for me to use (with an apology that I somehow don't have any comp dollars, after playing for such a long time, with a reasonable average bet).

A note that there are no countermeasures taken at this place against me- other than getting no offers, no comp dollars, and the like.

You'd be surprised how easily this happens around the country. I am not one to Shy off from a bit of an "issue" with unassuming casino personnel in an attempt to get a comp that is undeserved.

The comp system is just different nowadays. You can't just "fake it" like you used to, and simply playing for it doesn't quite yield the desired results either. Knowing what the system is designed to reward, and finding ways to manipulate yourself to that level are important when hustling comps.

[BJPloppy]

Knowing what the system is designed to reward, and finding ways to manipulate yourself to that level are important when hustling comps.

Exoter,

I tried to PM you, but there is no option to do so. Comps and promotions are frequently how my wife and I take vacations. I would love to learn how to do it better.

BJP

[Exoter175]

Exoter,

I tried to PM you, but there is no option to do so. Comps and promotions are frequently how my wife and I take vacations. I would love to learn how to do it better.

BJP

I find the idea of paying $3/mo to be able to PM someone abhorrent. Truth be told, I figured by now Norm would have changed that or would have given me special privilege based upon the content I've shared.

If you have a "throwaway" email you don't mind posting here on the forum we can start a correspondence if you'd like.