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Thread: K-O Blackjack vs HiLo

  1. #27


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    Quote Originally Posted by Philippe B View Post
    It's the advantage of CVCX over CVData.
    In one sim you can compute almost all rules, many pen, with 1 or more players, many spread, many bankroll ....

    For instance:
    Attachment 2480
    Thank you for the sim data Philippe, but I'm an old timer and barely puter savvy, so I don't know from simulations at all...But I do know what I know, and have been doing this thing since the mid 60's....There is no one here on this site that believes me when I say it's possible to grind out two top bets per hour with a 1 to 2 spread. I assume they believe this due to their simulations saying as much. The 1st book I ever read back when it 1st came out in the 60's, was thorpe, and I cut my teeth on his 36/16, which was a real mind-blower because it was so tough - for me at least - to do. My next book was Canfield's "Blackjack Your Way to Riches", which changed everything for me, and by all accounts is supposedly now totally outdated, which I strongly disagree. But it was from that book that I learned, and realized to be true, that it is in fact possible to grind out two top bets per hour with a 1 to 2 spread using his "Expert Strategy". And to do so without those wild crazy BR swings one gets from those huge spreads I read about here. I also spent many years on the inside of the gaming world, having dealt craps, roulette and bj. Also walked the floor and sat box on many a crap game. All of which gives me grift sense as to what is going on in those joints while I am playing.....Anyway, I digress.....

  2. #28


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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    Ok. The big question is insurance. If you take it everytime it's called for, then a change may be slightly beneficial. For instance, taking it with 16vs10 On the last hand of the deck and then not taking even money on the first hand of the next deck might raise some eyebrows.

    Not to confuse the issue but you could do both REKO and Silver Fox. Simply drop the 9 for your large bet decisions.

    POD. I like that. Play some blackjack. Eat lunch. Watch football.
    Moses....which strategy do you use/like?.....ronster

  3. #29
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    I use a custom count and a 4 column count derived from reading Thorp's book.

    For you, I'd stay with Silver Fox or go REKO. Norm has both oar's in the water. I like the way he simplified it with always the 2 move. Except I would adjust the indices for preferential shuffle and no surrender purposes.

    What indices do you employ?
    Last edited by moses; 12-19-2016 at 12:20 PM.

  4. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronster View Post
    "how do you account for the very high pe, bc and ic numbers for ko?"
    BC=.977, PE=.55, IC=.78

    These are weak numbers !

    The P E is basically "as bad as you can get."

    If you could play a typical commonplace shoe games
    with big betting ramps, e.g. 20-1, then your reasonable
    betting correlation will see you through. Good Luck.

  5. #31


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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    I use a custom count and a 4 column count derived from reading Thorp's book.

    For you, I'd stay with Silver Fox or go REKO. Norm has both oar's in the water. I like the way he simplified it with always the 2 move. Except I would adjust the indices for preferential shuffle and no surrender purposes.

    What indices do you employ?
    By indices do you mean modifying basic?.....I told you I'm an old timer...lol

  6. #32


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    BC=.977, PE=.55, IC=.78

    These are weak numbers !

    The P E is basically "as bad as you can get."

    If you could play a typical commonplace shoe games
    with big betting ramps, e.g. 20-1, then your reasonable
    betting correlation will see you through. Good Luck.
    "bad as you can get"???....wtf, all three are higher than Hi Lo's numbers!

  7. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronster View Post
    By indices do you mean modifying basic?.....I told you I'm an old timer...lol
    For instance. 12vs3,4 13vs2,3,4 14vs2,10,A 15vs10,A. 16vs10,A 10,11 double downs would be my plays that deviate from basic strategy.

  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronster View Post
    "bad as you can get" ... "Hi-Lo" Lo's numbers!
    Exactly correct, insignificantly different
    from other Recreational Counts like Hi-lo

  9. #35


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    BC=.977, PE=.55, IC=.78

    These are weak numbers !

    The P E is basically "as bad as you can get."

    If you could play a typical commonplace shoe games
    with big betting ramps, e.g. 20-1, then your reasonable
    betting correlation will see you through. Good Luck.
    It is incorrect saying the PE is basically "as bad as you can get". No it is not! How about this system?

    A-(-2)
    2-(1)
    3-(1)
    4-(2)
    5-(2)
    6-(1)
    7-(0)
    8-(0)
    9-(-1)
    T-(-1)

    BC = .95 PE= .41 IC = .53

    I guess this level two card counting system is a recreational count system as well. This count system count the count the 4s and 5s as twice as more than other cards. Since have a weaker BC, PE and IC.

  10. #36
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    REKO PE and IC is the same as RPC/Felt. Level 2 count.

  11. #37


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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    REKO PE and IC is the same as RPC/Felt. Level 2 count.
    It is incorrect to say that PE =.55 is as bad as it can get because I seen level 2 and level 3 PE to be lower. To name a few:

    A-(-3)
    2- 1
    3-2
    4-2
    5-2
    6-2
    7-2
    8-0
    9-0
    T-(-2)

    BC = 97, PE = 49, IC = .71

    A-(-3)
    2- 1
    3-2
    4-2
    5-3
    6-2
    7-1
    8-0
    9-0
    T-(-2)

    BC = 98, PE = 49, IC = .69

    Oh! Low BC, PE, and IC recreational count!!

  12. #38
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    Hmmmm. I feel a PE utterly useless statement in the air.

  13. #39


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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    Hmmmm. I feel a PE utterly useless statement in the air.
    Nope, never explicitly said that. Just want to make a point that higher level counts doesn't always have the strongest BC,PE and IC. If that is the case than how do you determine if a count is a professional level count or recreational? By looking at the BC, PE and IC or is it higher level count compare to level one?

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