Question re: 6-5 double deck

**Phoebe** · 12-15-2016, 12:44 AM

SuperFun 21 or Fun 21 ?
On Costa Cruise, I found Fun 21 with Qeens removed.
On MSC, Dream 21 with 10s removed.

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 12-15-2016, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by moo321

"Go sim this game with a 1-30 spread with both Zen and Hi Opt II.
Then you can apologize for calling my good advice "VERY bad advice.""

With such dreadful penetration, the game is perhaps barely break-even with 50% pen' spreads. You mentioned "Secret Monkey". It was he who suggested the St. Jude's Count when A.C. was dealing SD 6/5.

RE: ZEN

You are wrong -- as Zen NEVER outperforms Hi-Opt II. It is a good and easy count that I used for 1.5 decades. Once I moved to Hi-opt II my results were nicely enhanced and I "never looked back." I suggest that anyone who has fallen for this patently bad advice read Modern Blackjack by Norm W. It may be in volume #2.

**Phoebe** · 12-15-2016, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash

I suggest that anyone who has fallen for this patently bad advice read Modern Blackjack by Norm W. It may be in volume #2.

Volume #1 page 188

**moo321** · 12-17-2016, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash

With such dreadful penetration, the game is perhaps barely break-even with 50% pen' spreads. You mentioned "Secret Monkey". It was he who suggested the St. Jude's Count when A.C. was dealing SD 6/5.

RE: ZEN

You are wrong -- as Zen NEVER outperforms Hi-Opt II. It is a good and easy count that I used for 1.5 decades. Once I moved to Hi-opt II my results were nicely enhanced and I "never looked back." I suggest that anyone who has fallen for this patently bad advice read Modern Blackjack by Norm W. It may be in volume #2.

Did you run a sim yet, like I asked you to do?

And do you realize that -1 for the ace has a better betting correlation in 6:5 than an ace-richness adjustment of 2? Even with side-counting, Hi Opt II is worse than Zen in that game due to this problem.

**blueman** · 12-18-2016, 01:25 PM

I've bottom card steered @ 6:5 DD.... always wondered if they would ever ban off a counter playing 6:5? It's better than no game at all if you can spread huge

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 12-18-2016, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by moo321

Did you run a sim yet, like I asked you to do?

" ... -1 for the ace has a better betting correlation in 6:5 than an ace-richness adjustment of 2? Even with side-counting, Hi Opt II is worse than Zen in that game due to this problem."

No, I haven't, and I shant. I do not enjoy reinventing the wheel.

As Hi-Opt II Side-Counts the Aces, the tag for it can be adjusted of course.

For betting purposes Surplus / Deficit Aces could be downgraded to + / - 1.5 (or 1).

For playing purposes, I would reduce the value of the Aces by half as they pertain to

doubling 9's and 10's, but not for 9-9 vs 7 or 9-9 vs Aces, etc. etc.

RS · 12-18-2016, 01:41 PM

ZMF, is it 1.5 or 1? You say one or the other (implying you don't know).

**Freightman** · 12-18-2016, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by RollingStoned

ZMF, is it 1.5 or 1? You say one or the other (implying you don't know).

I think he's implying that he doesn't give a shit, since he's not likely going to play 6:5.

RS · 12-18-2016, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Freightman

I think he's implying that he doesn't give a shit, since he's not likely going to play 6:5.

Whether ZMF is likely to play 6:5 or not doesn't have a thing to do with what he said.

Or rather, are you saying it's ok to give awful advice if you're not going to play the game you're talking about?

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 12-18-2016, 03:34 PM

Feel free to infer what you will; as I would not
play such a crummy game it is meaningless.

**Jabberwocky** · 12-18-2016, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash

Feel free to infer what you will.
As I would never play such a crummy game it is meaningless.

But you would play a 52 card SuperFun21 game, no?

**BJGenius007** · 12-18-2016, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by RollingStoned

ZMF, is it 1.5 or 1? You say one or the other (implying you don't know).

For me, when I use AO2 or Hi-Opt II, I will put the same weight on ace and face cards. For example, RC = +8, the remaining deck is three aces rich, so the modified RC = +14. Another example, RC = +11, the remaining deck is five aces poor, so the modified RC = +1.

The only exception is when the remaining deck is super ace rich (>=4), I will only put +1 weight on each extra ace, instead +2. Because too much salt ruin the dish. For example, RC = +4, the remaining deck is seven aces rich, so the modified RC = +11.

The above modified RC are for betting purpose. For playing RC, it is another story.