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Thread: Silver Fox strategy vs Hi Lo?

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    Silver Fox strategy vs Hi Lo?

    I have used both, and am ambivalent on which of the two is the better strategy?....My biggest concern is the wisdom (or lack thereof) of counting 9 as -1 as in Silver Fox, vs counting 9 as 0 as in Hi Low?......I play only SD & DD on a quarter table with a 1 to 3 spread, and I modify basic as the C dictates.....Any and all comments/viewpoints/banter or criticism would be greatly appreciated....
    Last edited by Ronster; 12-11-2016 at 11:51 AM.

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    You are negating most of the House Edge,
    presuming that this is a H17, DAS, NRSA
    for a House Edge of 0.40%

    You have negated most of the House Edge,
    but not all.

  3. #3
    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    Counting the 7 and 9 against each other helps your playing and betting correlation a bit, but hurts you on insurance decisions. Here is a great article from the Blackjack Forum archives. http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/hundred.htm

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by bigplayer View Post
    Counting the 7 and 9 against each other helps your playing and betting correlation a bit, but hurts you on insurance decisions. Here is a great article from the Blackjack Forum archives. http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/hundred.htm
    Thanks bigplayer for the input. Can you tell me how to find out the (I don't know what it is called) exact value of one card compared to the value of another card?....What I am trying to learn is, the difference in weight value between a 9 and a paint. I know a 9 has a little less value than a 10, as far as using it as a minus card, but I'd like to know how much less value it actually is, because I use the Silver Fox strategy, which values 9's as well as 10's and Ace's as minus cards.....Thank you again....ronster

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    There's nothing wrong with the Silver Fox system if you're already using it.
    The Cash Cow.

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    Meaning what Moo?....that I could have started with something better than a level 1 such as Silver Fox?...Between the two - Silver Fox and Hi Lo - which do you believe is the more accurate/advantageous/profitable, playing against SD and/or DD with 70% pen and using modified basic?.....Many thanks beforehand, to you and all that have replied to my post....ronster

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronster View Post
    Meaning what Moo?....that I could have started with something better than a level 1 such as Silver Fox?...Between the two - Silver Fox and Hi Lo - which do you believe is the more accurate/advantageous/profitable, playing against SD and/or DD with 70% pen and using modified basic?.....Many thanks beforehand, to you and all that have replied to my post....ronster
    If you've sunk a bunch of time into learning the system and indexes, then Silver Fox will work. Hi Lo is a bit better (maybe 5%), but that's not very important.
    The Cash Cow.

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    In post #4 there is a reference to:

    http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/hundred.htm


    Naturally, the Bishop Snyder, touts his ZEN system as the most profitable;

    BUT he mentions in the text of the article that he prefers using Hi-Opt II.

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    Here is what Bishop Snyder says on the subject in the following link:
    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/hundred.htm
    "The top-ranked (level two) Zen Count is simpler than any of the next three counts which are level 3, level 4, and level 3, respectively. As I noted earlier, I use the Hi-Opt II count. My reason for this is that the gain from using the Zen Count is very slight, and frankly Hi-Opt II is slightly simpler. I'm a great believer in simplicity. Nor could I say for certain that the Zen Count is undeniably superior. The Blackjack Formula indicates a negligible superiority under most conditions."

    I never tried the Zen count but I am not sure why you would think it was harder. Certainly using the info gathered is harder for Hiopt2/ASC. I don't see much difference in counting difficulty once the simple task of keeping a side count is mastered. Before you have the basic skill of side counting down Hiopt2/ASC is harder than Zen.

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    You most common stiff hit is 12 versus a stiff. 9 is the most important "low card" when you have 12. Insurance is your strongest index play and you don't get paid if the dealer has a 9 under that ace.

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    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    If anything, you are probably throwing EITS counters off by including the 9 and the 7. Including the 7 in your count will help decisions on that pesky 14 vs 10 matchup.
    Not likely. They will find the same edges that you find almost everytime just using high low and computer systems like Bloodhound rely on inputing the exact cards and using Griffin's EOR's to determine your exact betting correlation. There are other ways to beat evaluations from the eye but using multiple level card count systems isn't one of them. The key is knowing you are being evaluated or scheduled to be evaluated in the first place. Then there are all sorts of proprietary tricks of the trade to make yourself look like an idiot.

  12. #12


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    Moses:......Here in Laughlin, if one uses common sense, a 1-3 spread on a quarter table, SD/DD, 3:2, with good pen, there is no problem with the guy in the sky as far as tracking you. I've found over the years that using Silver Fox & modified basic, a 1-3 spread, (which for me tames volatility considerably) will garner little if any heat. And by common sense I mean playing 1 hour, no more, win or lose, walk away; spread to different joints & different shifts.....And, after having used the (simplified) Silver Fox for so many years, I am able to romance the cocktail girl, watch the keno board, and banter with the guy next to me, all while keeping an accurate C, which also puts them to sleep up above. I also stay completely away from 3rd base. I always sit on 1st, or as close to it as I can get, which in turn dials down the heat with the pit as well as the eye in the sky....

    Popular consensus here on this site would have me believe the above is a recipe for disaster, but I've been here nearly 50 years and have found that is not the case. I have lived quite comfortably over the years and have never lost a joint here. Reno yes, but not here......(Oh, one also must very discreetly rat-hole checks and cash them in on different shifts/different joints, which is paramount)....And yes, I admit I do not come close to winning the kind of bucks that others are winning here on the site, but my nut is low, in that I do not have to travel, which incurs ungodly expense as you know....... I do love this site tho and read with relish the daily posts.....ronster
    Last edited by Ronster; 12-13-2016 at 08:06 AM.

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    Thanks for the info moses....but on the other hand I'm wondering why the "flash" tells me I'm using the absolute worst strategy out there???....It seems to work for me here on the river, with no heat whatsoever, and I've managed to tame the volatility by using a 1-3 spread....But then I'm playing SD & DD, only, no shoes....

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