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Thread: Quick ? about hands per shoe/hands per session

  1. #1


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    Quick ? about hands per shoe/hands per session

    Trying to work on my EV . What is the typical and easiest way to calculate hands per hr in DD and 6 deck? For ease let's assume hand shuffle. Heads up. Is there an easy way to get a modified HP hr when you add other people to the table. Getting a rough estimate. I'll be able to get my avg. per shoe time heads up soon. I just am looking for a rough estimate. I realize there are more variables than just how fast I play i.e. Dealer speed, distractions etc. Thanks

  2. #2


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    Here's what I use for a DD pitch game with ASM shuffle:

    1 player: 160/hr, 2 players: 120/hr, 3 players: 90/hr, 4 players: 72/hr, 5 players: 60/hr. Hand shuffle will obviously reduce these numbers a little, but not much...

  3. #3


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    The way I calculate it is I take the shuffle time, subtract it from the hour, then track number of hands seen/hr HU, then start adjusting hands/hr based on the shuffle inclusion, as well as the slow decision making time of other players. The difference from 1-2 players is huge, 2-3 players less, and 3-4 players is minuscule.

    All in all, I'd say a 4 player DD hand shuffled pitch game is looking at 50 hph. A 6D HU ASM game can be as high as 400HPH like clockwork. I'd imagine that an 8D game can be done around 430-440HPH with the fastest dealers I've seen dealing it. Most 6D HU games will be dealt around 210HPH, and only get better the faster you think/work and the faster the dealer wants to work. Some deal it as fast as possible naturally, some take their merry little time settling in around 150-170HPH for about 35% of all employees.

  4. #4


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    Much appreciated. I got Don's avg. as well from BJA3 page 18. I play part time/hobby so my EV is something I haven't paid much attention to.(some of you are prob cringing) I make good $$ playing (slightly less an hr than my real job) but was emailing another AP and he asked me if I was above or below my EV. Made me feel a little foolish so I figured I had better step it up a notch.

  5. #5


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    On theory, which could work, although I'm not sure what kind of other nuances there are, as I don't really track my # of rounds played accurately.

    But my theory would be something like this -- there are an average of 2.7 cards per player + dealer used per round (I think that's the number people claim?). If you know how many cards there are before shuffle time (ie: 75% pen on DD = 0.75 * 104 = 78 cards), you're playing heads up with 1 hand, then there are 5.4 cards/round, thus 78/5.4 = 14.44 rounds per shuffle. Then you just count however many shuffles there are, multiply by 14.44, and that's how many rounds you'd expect to have played. Of course it'd be a bit more difficult if you're first playing heads up, then with 2 others, then 1 other, then 4 others.....
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by RollingStoned View Post
    On theory, which could work, although I'm not sure what kind of other nuances there are, as I don't really track my # of rounds played accurately.

    But my theory would be something like this -- there are an average of 2.7 cards per player + dealer used per round (I think that's the number people claim?). If you know how many cards there are before shuffle time (ie: 75% pen on DD = 0.75 * 104 = 78 cards), you're playing heads up with 1 hand, then there are 5.4 cards/round, thus 78/5.4 = 14.44 rounds per shuffle. Then you just count however many shuffles there are, multiply by 14.44, and that's how many rounds you'd expect to have played. Of course it'd be a bit more difficult if you're first playing heads up, then with 2 others, then 1 other, then 4 others.....
    This is also how I got my estimates for the DD game (per my post above). I noted a shuffle about every 5 minutes, 12 per hour. So I multiplied 12 times the theoretical number of hands per shuffle based on number of players and penetration.

  7. #7


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    Don't forget to account for how long the shuffle takes or you'll grossly overrate your game.

  8. #8


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    And don't forget that even on DD games, many places have side bets and folks betting on these and pay offs can take time plus ploppies who bet $25, place a side bet of $5 and then add a dollar tip on each of those bets. Sometimes, idiots bet odd amounts. One superstitious guy at my local casino, sits at table, cashes in $300, wants precise amounts of Greens, reds and $20 in dollar chips, places one of each (Green, red) and a side bet of $5 plus $1 chip on each of the bets. Slows the game down do much and it irritates me so I often leave when he sits. On. The other hand, I irritate some by going from 2 hands to one.

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