Most important indices for Spanish 21

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Philippe B,

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[Phoebe]

My mail is [email protected]

[Phoebe]

Some Soft Double (and only Soft Double) indices are strange.
With SMC:

Soft Double - A6 vs. 4: Double >= 7
Soft Double - A5 vs. 6: No Double
Soft Double - A4 vs. 6: No Double

In regard to the bolded line, unless you are using an odd count, that number doesn't make sense. It isn't the index I use (I can't give out- proprietary info), and Wizard of Odds has it (in the S17 game) as a Double as basic strategy- even if you aren't counting cards.

Bug corrected in www.qfit.com/update5124.msi
Thanks All Clear and Norm.

For the others, it was useless to explain me that BJ and SP 21 are different or that my count is weak. And even I should not play SP21.
As a recreationnal player, I am satisfied whith a decent SCORE and a lot of fun to play.

[Edit] Bad expession "Double Down" corrected.

[All Clear]

Bug corrected in www.qfit.com/update5124.msi
Thanks All Clear and Norm.

For the others, it was useless to explain me that BJ and SP 21 are different or that my count is weak. And even I should not play SP21.
As a recreationnal player, I am satisfied whith a decent SCORE and a lot of fun to play.

[Edit] Bad expession "Double Down" corrected.

You're welcome. :-) I also found the "no double" on the A5 v 6 line below the bolded one to be odd - (see Wizard of Odds, and Katarina Walker's charts), but because I use a different counting system than you do for SP21, I was hesitant to write that what you have is incorrect, even as I have strong suspicions that there is actually an index (or even basic strategy) to double at.

[Chinasore]

ZM what is your opinion on using this count in Spanish 21? 2 - 6 plus 1, 7 - 8 0, 9 - A minus 1 with an Ace side count. I like the super monkey count but I'd rather use a balanced count with Ace side count so I want to know if this count is almost the same.

[Chinasore]

Me? An unbalanced level one count ? I think not (understatement)

I only use advanced counts with a big load of indices

for all (rational) possible hand matchups.


In many cases this means 3,4, or more different Indices depending on various factors.


e.g. The weakest possible situation is having a hard 17 vs. a dealer ACE.


Basic Strategy directs you to surrender, (the only B.S. Surrender) but ...


A sufficiently high T.C. has me standing and a sufficiently low T.C. has me hitting.


How about doubling a soft hand with a hard 17 result, do you surrender (‘rescue’) ?


How about a multi-card hard 17 — when do you hit ?


note: a 5 or 6 card hard 17 or 18 vs Ace is (basic strategy) may in fact be a HIT.

ZM what is your opinion on using this count in Spanish 21? 2 - 6 plus 1, 7 - 8 0, 9 - A minus 1 with an Ace side count. I like the super monkey count but I'd rather use a balanced count with Ace side count so I want to know if this count is almost the same.

[BJGenius007]

Most of the versions I have indices for for SMC are balanced ace side counted so the playing matrix is different except where the combined count is used to decide the play (all for S17 game). It is not for these soft doubles. The most basic chart has no soft double indices but has A5v6, A6 and A7 v 4,5 and 6 as doubles.

S17 soft double indices for full deck resolution and flooring:
A2v5: +9
A2v6: +12
A3v5: +8
A3v6: +9
A4v5: +8
A4v6: -3
A5v5: -1
A5v6: -8
A6v4: -1
A6v5: -6
A6v6: -10
A7v3: +7
A7v4: -1
A7v5: -5
A7v6: -6
A8v4: +11
A8v5: +8
A8v6: +9
A9v5: +11

Does anyone else have Wei-min Hwang's Masque Spanish 21? It is a poor man's Casino Verite used to be sold in CompUSA, Target, OfficeMax and Stapple's for $10 from 1987 to 2015. I bought an earlier version in CompUSA in 1989. It came with a good book with all Blackjack and Spanish 21 indexes. I saw it again on Target in 2014 or so. But lately Target no longer sold PC software.

This is the softdouble indexes (S17, 6D):

A7 v 6: +6
A7 v 5: +5
A7 v 4: +4
A6 v 6: +6
A6 v 5: +5
A6 v 4: +4
A5 v 6: +4
A4 v 6: +3

(Tags: 3/4/5/6 +1, X/A -1)

[BJGenius007]

Does anyone else have Wei-min Hwang's Masque Spanish 21? It is a poor man's Casino Verite used to be sold in CompUSA, Target, OfficeMax and Stapple's for $10 from 1987 to 2015. I bought an earlier version in CompUSA in 1989. It came with a good book with all Blackjack and Spanish 21 indexes. I saw it again on Target in 2014 or so. But lately Target no longer sold PC software.

This is the softdouble indexes (S17, 6D):

A7 v 6: +6
A7 v 5: +5
A7 v 4: +4
A6 v 6: +6
A6 v 5: +5
A6 v 4: +4
A5 v 6: +4
A4 v 6: +3

(Tags: 3/4/5/6 +1, X/A -1)

I wonder if I can publish all his indexes if his software is out of print. It may help SP21 players.

[BJGenius007]

If you can find a S17, 6D game let me know. It is as common as being bitten by an albino alligator.

This software was originally written in 1980's. At that time, S17 was more popular than H17. All casinos in AC were S17. In LV, you saw more S17 than H17.

[Chinasore]

If you can find a S17, 6D, SP21 game let me know. It is as common as being bitten by an albino alligator.

Most casinos near me in new england have s17, 6D games S21 games. Nothing else.

[Chinasore]

For S17 SP21:
Having the ace in the main count makes the playing count weak. Playing decisions are extremely important in SP21. I have seen few systems that give PE the importance it deserves in S17 SP21. A level 1 count will be insufficient for betting. The ace is worth about 3 times the face in terms of betting EoR. The five is worth twice the face for betting and the 4 is worth almost as much. The 2 ,3, 6 and faces are all minor cards for betting with similar magnitude EoR's. The variance will eat you alive with the system you propose. Both betting and playing decisions will be extremely inaccurate. Simple approaches just work poorly in SP21. Think multi-level count that is also ace neutral and then start getting fancy from there. Anything less will force you to compromise between a strong playing count and a strong betting count. What you propose has neither. You want both a strong playing count and a strong betting count because they are both very important in S17 SP21. If you were in the "keep it simple camp" for BJ you have a lot of skills to learn before you are ready to be a threat in S17 SP21.

The H17 SP21 game is a bit of a different story. Without redouble the game sucks. The limits are so small in most places that offer redouble while capping your total bet at table max you will not be betting much on your original bet so as to allow the room to redouble without exceeding the table max with your aggregate bet.

I found that count in the link below and adjusted it to be as close to a BJ hi lo count as possible because that's what I use now.

https://discountgambling.net/2009/02...for-spanish21/

If what the author suggests is true, I can use that count with an ace side count and BS deviations to increase my edge even more. This is in a S17, no redouble, 6D game btw. Thoughts? And do you know where to find a S21 BS deviation chart btw?

[Gronbog]

If what the author suggests is true, I can use that count with an ace side count and BS deviations to increase my edge even more. This is in a S17, no redouble, 6D game btw. Thoughts? And do you know where to find a S21 BS deviation chart btw?

The author (or someone else with the necessary software) would have to generate the indices (deviations) for this particular count.

There are better counts out there in the public domain, including Katarina Walker's HiLo-based count, for which she provides indices. You can find another count for Spanish 21 right here by searching for "Secret Monkey Count" -- not so secret any more

[Chinasore]

The author (or someone else with the necessary software) would have to generate the indices (deviations) for this particular count.

There are better counts out there in the public domain, including Katarina Walker's HiLo-based count, for which she provides indices. You can find another count for Spanish 21 right here by searching for "Secret Monkey Count" -- not so secret any more

Thanks. I have seen the secret monkey count on here. I was not able to find the indicies to go along with it though. Do you happen to have a link for them?