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Thread: Wong halves vs hi lo

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    Wong halves vs hi lo

    With perfect play and the same index numbers, say ill 18, how many extra hands per hour would one need to play with hi lo to generate the same hourly ev as using wong halves?

    (Right now, i can do hi lo in my sleep, just started using halves in DD and im a bit slower... might be same ev as hi lo with the speed differences)

    Also, how much more fluctuation comes from using hi lo compared to halves?
    (Sense hi lo over and under estimates player edge where halves is a lot more accurate)
    May the Variance be with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blueman View Post
    With perfect play and the same index numbers, say ill 18, how many extra hands per hour would one need to play with hi lo to generate the same hourly ev as using wong halves?

    (Right now, i can do hi lo in my sleep, just started using halves in DD and im a bit slower... might be same ev as hi lo with the speed differences)

    Also, how much more fluctuation comes from using hi lo compared to halves?
    (Sense hi lo over and under estimates player edge where halves is a lot more accurate)
    "Perfect play" usually means playing all the hands perfectly, as a computer would. But, since you're stipulating I18, what I suppose you mean is playing with no errors. Anyway, questions like yours can't be answered unless you specify not only number of decks and rules but also spread. Once you do, you'll find representative ranges on p. 172 of BJA3, in the SCORE chapter. For example, 5/6, DAS, LS, 1-12 spread, play-all: Halves 100.89, Hi-Lo, 90.21. So, if 100 hands per hour, using Halves, you'd need 100.89/90.21 = 112 H-Lo hands to win the same amount of money. There are seven different scenarios on the page, so YMMV.

    As for the second question, the variance is built into the SCORE, so that is part of the above consideration. If, on the other hand, you're asking specifically for the two standard deviations compared, once both are played optimally, for a given scenario, you'll need to state the precise rules, etc.

    Don

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    Precise rules being DD 1.25 dealt H17 DAS comparing the 2 standard deviations

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    The 10% more hi lo hands answer Don gave is a good catch all. In time, and not likely a lot of time, your speed at halves is likely going to be equal to hi lo. This now translates into roughly (catch all) 10% higher earnings over all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    The 10% more hi lo hands answer Don gave is a good catch all. In time, and not likely a lot of time, your speed at halves is likely going to be equal to hi lo. This now translates into roughly (catch all) 10% higher earnings over all.
    Yes i noticed that after just 1 session i was definitely faster already

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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    I'm curious blueman. Why the leap from hi lo all the way to Wong Halves. How many indices do you employ?
    It's a natural step in that indices are virtually identical. He did say I18. His next steps are to get more proficient at speed and accuracy, followed by learning more indices.

    His step after that, if so given inclined, would be side counts, helpful at shoe, more so at pitch.

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    I don't always split T,T when the count calls for it and I have never received heat on the occasions I felt it was appropriate to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    I'm curious blueman. Why the leap from hi lo all the way to Wong Halves. How many indices do you employ?
    I actually employ all indices from -1 to +9 in hi lo and am quick with it. So i figured halves was a good step to take, same indices.

    Is halves with indices -1 to +9 better than hi lo same indices but with ace side count?
    Leta say DD H17 DAS

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    I started with ill18 and then just slowly added more indices as i had the others mastered. Now I'm at a lot of them lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by blueman View Post
    Is halves with indices -1 to +9 better than hi lo same indices but with ace side count?
    Leta say DD H17 DAS
    Yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    I can say the same thing. It's just the situation is very rare. And if I slip? It's curtains. No way could I consider it part of a daily diet. Perhaps a rare treat...maybe.
    I said I don't always do it. To be a successful AP you have to be good a reading things or setting up a play that might not fly otherwise. There is no one size fits all casinos for an AP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    I said I don't always do it. To be a successful AP you have to be good a reading things or setting up a play that might not fly otherwise. There is no one size fits all casinos for an AP.
    Therefore, it wouldn't be fair to include it as a comparison in Sims. It doesn't diffentiate between maybe or maybe not. Either always or never.

    A rare win win situation to the OP. Wong Halves is a matter of practice on Verite in order to perfect the count.


    The indices are the same so you can always switch back to Hi Lo if fatiqued.


    Add Perfect Insurance with a 994 BC. Hard to get any better.
    Last edited by moses; 10-08-2017 at 04:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    Therefore, it wouldn't be fair to include it as a comparison in Sims. It doesn't diffentiate between maybe or maybe not. Either always or never.
    You could include it. You could run the comparison both ways to see if it matters. Sims are a starting point for comparison. As sim can't differentiate things that happen in front of you in the casino like heat from a play like splitting tens. Depending on how you gather and use information the list of things a sim falls short on gets longer and longer.

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