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Thread: New member introducing myself

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    New member introducing myself

    Hi all, a little about myself. I took up an interest in blackjack a few years ago. I learnt basic strategy, high-low, illustrious 18, fab 4 and a few extra indices. I put together a bet spread and after a lot of practice i felt like i was ready to put this all together inside the casino for my first blackjack session. Unfortunately when i arrived all i could see was CSM's all over the main floor. That threw a spanner in the works after all of my practice. I found out that all the other casinos use CSM's in my country. The HL rooms still used shoes but the conditions were poor so i gave up on the idea of blackjack here. I have always kept an interest in blackjack even though i havent been able to play here. I have a couple of trips planned for next year where i will be able to count, so i have begun practicing again. I have a question regarding deck estimation. I have heard that most casinos in the US use cartamundi, paulson and aristocrat cards. Are these brands the same thickness or if not, is there much difference between them? I tried to keep this first post short but it turned into an essay!!! Thanks everyone

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    Huh?
    Deck estimation and the brand correlation?

    Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

  3. #3


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    4 decks of paulson sitting in the discard tray could look completely different to 4 decks of aristocrat sitting in the discard tray if they are different thickness.

  4. #4
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    Talmadge,
    Where did you get your name from ?
    It is not your real name for sure.
    In other thread, they mentioned the 'Blackjack Story' by Glen Wiggy. I've never read it.

  5. #5


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    Yeah not my real name. Its from that blackjack story. Quite amusing but also very smart at the same time

  6. #6


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    cards fluff up and the pile becomes "higher" after a few hours of use.... if you are serious, buy/obtain about 40 decks of each. Then put the same amount of wear on them that your target casino(s) would inflict on them. Buy a micrometer and measure the before and after piles. This will give you an idea of the thickness of one deck when new, when used 8 hours, when used for an entire shift till changed. Next use rubber bands to make groupings of 1/2 deck or one deck or two decks, etc.... Buy a shoe and discard rack and felt lay-out (or even convert a table with aformentioned items to practice on) and practice deck estimation....
    I have personally bought a professional table for mid two thousand dollars because I wanted to duplicate EXACT casino conditions for testing and implimentaion of various idea's and strategies....

  7. #7


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    Card thickness can vary as much as one half to three quarters of a deck based on manufacturer, use, HUMIDITY, and perhaps others. Often times you can purchase used cards in the casino gift shop to take home and better prepare yourself. Las Vegas has the Gamblers Book Store with used cards from most strip casinos and at reasonable prices.

    Practice by numbering a six deck shoe 1-312 (or keep them in order by suit in each deck) and practice cutting to +/- 3 cards. Helpful in shuffle tracking, card sequencing and just plain deck estimation.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

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    Comments regarding Deck thickness are very valid. Get used decks from various stores, and use casino chips, next to the deck to measure deck thickness. Various store decks may measure, for example, from 3.5 to 4.5 chips. Then, at the store, you can eyeball the discard tray vs a chip stack to more accurately measure cards played. There are other methods obviously.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by Talmadge View Post
    I have a question regarding deck estimation. I have heard that most casinos in the US use cartamundi, paulson and aristocrat cards. Are these brands the same thickness or if not, is there much difference between them? I tried to keep this first post short but it turned into an essay!!! Thanks everyone
    As already stated, card thickness will vary. So I recommend that you look at the discard tray after the dealer puts all the cards there just before he/she shuffles. Quickly note to where all 6 decks measure. Then look at where the halfway point is for the 3 deck mark. Then, cut this in half with your eyes again and you will know where 1.5 decks are. 1 deck would obviously be just 1/2 deck under that, probably about the thickness of 2 chips. You must do all this very quickly though (and discretely) since the dealer will not leave the cards there for long. If you don't already have a discard tray for practice at home, I would get one for 6 decks and one for 8 decks (some casinos put 6 decks into an 8 deck tray).

  10. #10
    Senior Member Bubbles's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forums ^_^. The Glen Wiggy book looks fun. I just bought it for my kindle.

    [Edited cuz I basically said the same thing as marriedputter, but in a less articulate and understandable manner and I didn't see his response until after I hit submit.]
    Last edited by Bubbles; 10-26-2016 at 08:09 AM.

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    Casinos are sneaky. They do things to make estimation more difficult. They may use a variety of discard trays for the same game so when you table hop everything looks different. They may set the discard tray sunken into the table a little so the bottom of the discards is closer to the felt to create a different look. Card thickness can vary by casino and cards swell as they get used due to humidity and perspiration of those handling them. Most places change the cards at least once a day but some do not. Of course if they don't card swelling can get extreme. MarriedPutter's suggestion to view all the cards in the tray is the best one. I am pretty good at deck estimation but at one place I have to make adjustments after half the cards are dealt. What they are makes no difference. The point is the deception by that casino works and is significant enough after half the cards are dealt to require an estimate adjustment. The adjustment was a 1/2 deck of cards. Without the adjustment my TC magnitudes would be significantly short of reality. This would cause under betting and late use of index plays which undercut your theoretical advantage. The casino dealt out 94% of the cards so at the end you could be way off on your TC due to poor deck estimation. Hopefully you will not find any adjustment necessary.

  12. #12


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    Learn to count the cards played, until 50-60, and still the count with. I do it, its a very good method, and not so hard if you use hi lo.

  13. #13
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    I recommend to new players that they practice cutting off 13, 26, and 52 cards ~
    plus or minus one card being the goal, with plus or minus two being acceptable.

    Quarter Deck, Half Deck, and Full Deck precision is more important than most think.

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