Hello, I am looking to get serious about my play and need advice on the best systems and books in order to make that happen. What is the absolute best card counting system. Can one play professionally using the KO system? Does it have to be an advanced system? An do you have to use a system that uses a true count? Are all card counting systems profitable if you have the right bank roll and play the right way? Sorry I know thats a lot.
http://web.archive.org/web/200502171...g/OSRating.htmOriginally Posted by eblack
Yes
No
No
Yes
Last edited by Norm; 08-18-2016 at 03:34 AM.
Play within your bankroll, pick your games with care and learn everything you can about the game. The winning will come. It has to. It's in the cards. -- Bryce Carlson
Post #3 by Bodarc. Last edited by Norm, at 06:34 AM today???????
"Your honor, with all due respect: if you're going to try my case for me, I wish you wouldn't lose it."
Fictitious Boston Attorney Frank Galvin (Paul Newman - January 26, 1925 - September 26, 2008) in The Verdict, 1982, lambasting Trial Judge Hoyle (Milo Donal O'Shea - June 2, 1926 - April 2, 2013) - http://imdb.com/title/tt0084855/
The choice of counting system should not be solely based on what makes the most money. It is about what count fits your strengths best while being strongest for the conditions you will face. A system is worthless if you can't do it quick and accurate. You can work on both of these things but each individual has their own practical limit. If you are usually playing double deck or single deck you generally won't be able to spread as much and TC frequencies will shift to more frequent higher magnitude TC's and the count will move around much more quickly. Playing decisions will become much more important to a high EV. Ace neutral and ace compromise counts are best suited to these games. For shoe games where large spreads are tolerated betting accuracy becomes much more important than playing. The ace neutral and ace compromise counts are still strongest here but many opt for simpler ace reckoned counts because of the change in importance of playing and betting and the perceived difficulty of side counting a shoe game. I think if you find side counting shoes difficult you shouldn't be side counting at all.
I often hear the argument that in shoe games there aren't enough situations where you would change a decision to make side counting worth it. This just shoes the person doesn't understand how they accrue EV. EV is increased when a system uses more useful info for the decision(s) being made. You should understand that you never are making a decision based on a precise deck composition. You are making a decision based on the average of all deck compositions that are equated to the one at hand. For playing decisions your EV gain is based on how well your group that is averaged correlate to the important cards in the decision. You change the composition of the group being averaged and the gain for that group for each incremental change in TC (the group you are currently in) will change. What I am trying to illustrate is that the added gain is not from the decisions you change but from the difference in the average for the group of situations that are equated. For most counts the equated groups are the ones that have the same TC. So if you can make your equated group correlate better to the decision you will gain more EV every time the deviation is made not every time the decision changes. It just bugs the hell out of me to hear someone show their misunderstanding of how EV is gained by stating something isn't worth it because it doesn't change your decision much.
Anyway side counting aces with an ace neutral count is primarily for betting. To use an ace neutral count without an ace side count is folly. You need the ace for betting. But ace neutral makes the vast majority of playing decisions much more accurate and using ace adjustments for the matchups where the ace is an important consideration increases the correlation of the adjusted count for the playing decision since the ace can be tailor weighted for the decision.
Back to the original count question. You must use the count you can do accurately first, quickly second, and while not looking like you are immersed in counting. You want to look natural at the tables. That makes the choice of counts a very individual decision with different correct answers for individuals. Know yourself and choose what fits you and your strengths and weaknesses as well as the games you will attack. Those that choose the more complicated approaches and succeed tend to be perfectionists that will demand the same of themselves and their count. They have a high work ethic. They are not looking for a quick fix but the best fix for them long term. I get in trouble when I try to generalize the type that tend to use simpler approaches. Like every generalization it doesn't fit many and some that it does fit don't want to admit they fit the description. But many well motivated perfectionists use simple approaches and learn their strengths and weaknesses and refine them to be more powerful. If you are going to try shuffle tracking most use Hilo for that technique. It is among the most lucrative approaches but if you are not proficient at it you may be betting into air where no advantage exists.
Last edited by Three; 08-18-2016 at 09:09 AM.
KO and HiLo will get the money. Unless you're playing a really strong pitch game, you don't need no fancy system (and even then, it's a matter of which system makes more money). And if you're going to be playing seriously, you probably shouldn't focus on pitch games. If someone says you need a fancy system, ignore them.
"Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]
And whose fault is that? Bodarc's extremely short and perfectly correct answers were all that were necessary. But the urge to hear oneself speak is uncontrollable on this board.
Tommy Hyland's teams -- the most successful in the history of the game, having won tens of millions of dollars -- used Hi-Lo exclusively. Bodarc's answers to very specific questions were as concise and correct as could be. All the rest is just desire to hear oneself talk. And God knows, there's no lack of that here.
Don
An even MORE concise answer to Bodarc's (which was very brief, helpful, and appropriate) would be "let your fingers do the walking" and search the archives and past posts............LOL It's amazing how many newbies don't look at old posts first, right?
Thank ask SPECIFIC questions which most here would be glad to answer.
"Women and cats will do as they please, and Men and dogs should just relax and get used to the idea" --- Robert A. Heinlein
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