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Thread: What kills the progression player?

  1. #14
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    If the casino has an infinite bankroll, it cannot be bankrupted. You need to be very careful when you assume an invalid proposition or introduce infinity. Look at this from the view of a logician and a mathematician:

    Logic

    The statement: "If you and the casino have an infinite bankroll, then Martingale works," is true -- but meaningless. You could just as well say: "If you and the casino have an infinite bankroll, then the moon is made of green cheese." That statement is also true. More simply, take the propositional formula: "if 3=4 than 2=1." According to Boolean logic, that statement is true. If x then y is always true if x is false. But, that doesn't mean y is true.

    Algebra

    a = b
    a2 = ab
    a2 - b2 = ab-b2
    (a-b)(a+b) = b(a-b)
    a+b = b
    b+b = b
    2b = b
    2 = 1

    We have "proved" that 2=1. But, we made the error of dividing by zero. We introduced infinity into the math. When you do this, you can create an invalid proof.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneWoLF View Post
    Just figure out the computation in the game you're attacking and have enough money to double up all the way until the highest possible losing streak and you cant be beat.
    This is wrong. There is no highest possible losing streak. So you would need an infinite BR. If you have an infinite BR you can't increase or decrease your BR so there is no winning or losing. Table limits exist because casinos are required to have enough cash in the cage to pay every chip at any time. They can only allow a certain amount of chips to be purchased. If a player arranges to play at higher than the normal table limits often a brinks truck needs to bring more cash to the casino so his buy-ins and winnings are in the accessible cash reserve for the casino. There is no way the casino could meet this legal requirement without table limits.

  3. #16
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    This step takes you into imaginary numbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    (a-b)(a+b) = b(a-b)
    a+b = b
    If a=b then dividing both sides by (a-b) to make this reduction of the equation is dividing both sides by 0 which is a real number no-no. If you allow this by limits you just made both sides approach infinity or basically made them infinity. I am sure that is your point but I doubt LW would get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    If x then y is always true if x is false. But, that doesn't mean y is true.
    Adding "if x is always false" the statement that if x then y the initial conditional is never met so the statement is always true because it never applies. Again I am sure that is your point. Just making it a bit clearer for those that hold LW delusions about numbers. So as Norm has stated assuming if this thing we know is false then any statement could follow and the conditional will never be wrong. Like if LW had an infinite BR he would lose it all. That statement will never be wrong.

  4. #17
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Yes, and that clarifies, except these aren't "imaginary numbers." Imaginary numbers are basically those that include the root of a negative.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Yes, and that clarifies, except these aren't "imaginary numbers." Imaginary numbers are basically those that include the root of a negative.
    Oops. My bad. I got it right in another place though, that the proof breaks down by making an illegal move which causes two different sides of the equation to become infinite and then it assigns a finite value to them.

  6. #19


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    an infinite statement continues to iterate since there is no clear path to the right answer. Case in point.

    If my balls are itchy, I might scratch them
    You may or may not scratch, and logic reverberates between this difficult choice.

    Using finite logic, A vibrato ripping the sides of my butt cheeks eventually ends, at which time I will scratch. So, when sufficient time has passed, i will scratch. However, the logic of a never ending choice, a circular reference if you will, is like putting someone in a round room telling them to sit in the corner.

    Cognitive imagery is so much easier to grasp.

  7. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    If the casino has an infinite bankroll, it cannot be bankrupted. You need to be very careful when you assume an invalid proposition or introduce infinity. Look at this from the view of a logician and a mathematician:

    Logic

    The statement: "If you and the casino have an infinite bankroll, then Martingale works," is true -- but meaningless. You could just as well say: "If you and the casino have an infinite bankroll, then the moon is made of green cheese." That statement is also true. More simply, take the propositional formula: "if 3=4 than 2=1." According to Boolean logic, that statement is true. If x then y is always true if x is false. But, that doesn't mean y is true.

    Algebra

    a = b
    a2 = ab
    a2 - b2 = ab-b2
    (a-b)(a+b) = b(a-b)
    a+b = b
    b+b = b
    2b = b
    2 = 1

    We have "proved" that 2=1. But, we made the error of dividing by zero. We introduced infinity into the math. When you do this, you can create an invalid proof.
    I never said the casino had an infinite bankroll, which is why I said what i said about bankrupting them.

  8. #21
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Under Nevada law, the casino must have the cash to back any bet.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  9. #22
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    Of course the casino needs the cash to cover for a BIG WIN and having table limits makes sense, but in the same casino you can find limits like: 5-200, 10-500, 15-1000 etc. If the limits were there only for the casino to cover the bets with cash, why wouldn’t all the tables have the same max bet?

  10. #23
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    This is covered in my book. No time to look it up.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picasso View Post
    Of course the casino needs the cash to cover for a BIG WIN and having table limits makes sense, but in the same casino you can find limits like: 5-200, 10-500, 15-1000 etc. If the limits were there only for the casino to cover the bets with cash, why wouldn’t all the tables have the same max bet?
    If thwarting martingales had anything to do with it why wouldn't all the tables in the casino have the same ratio of max bet to min bet?

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    This is covered in my book. No time to look it up.
    Free book "Modern Blackjack" - page 17

  13. #26
    Member Picasso's Avatar
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    Read page 17 (thanks Philippe). It doesn’t adequately explain why the max but wouldn’t be the same for every table.

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