Hi Opt II vs DMPro

[ZeeBabar]

Bottomline seems to be that changing counts for 6-8 deck games does not result in significantly more success.

[Norm]

How did you come to that conclusion?

[Stealth]

Arnold Snyder and Richard Epstein agree with me

Name dropping to acquire credibility actually is negative Ev, I really have no concern over who agrees with you, but some facts on the topic might be worthy of consideration. Present the data and give me the chance to draw a conclusion for myself.

[Jabberwocky]

Fooledbyrandomness

[LoneWoLF]

It's just funny to me. The ones who care so much about side counts are simply bored and think there has to be some more advanced way of beating the game because it just seems to easy too count +1 and -1. Face it blackjack is as simple as hi lo and that's it. Unless you want to get into sequencing or tracking, different story, but for counting, that's it, that's how you beat the SHOE game. If you want to play PITCH games, side count your arse off.

Remember this golden rule. The ones selling the idea of side counts are the ones who either have an agenda or simply dont play enough in the real world to notice there's no difference at all. Plain and simple.

[Frank Galvin]

LoneWolf,

Whatever works for you.

But please respect my right to disagree, and to employ a different system to count/track cards, and to believe that my methodology is superior to Hi-Lo for betting, playing deviations and surrender & insurance decisions.

Or do you believe that the Model T was/is sufficient to get everyone from Point A to Point B, and that no one should expect improvements? Better fuel efficiency? Improvements in braking and other safety equipment? Manual transmissions and automatic transmission systems?

[Norm]

Remember this golden rule. The ones selling the idea of side counts are the ones who either have an agenda or simply dont play enough in the real world to notice there's no difference at all.

1. Most religions have a variation of the Golden Rule. I don't remember yours among them.
2. Your belief that there is no difference at all is at odds with the conclusions of every blackjack expert.
3. Do not again suggest anyone here has an "agenda" without damn good reason.

[ZeeBabar]

LoneWolf,

Whatever works for you.

But please respect my right to disagree, and to employ a different system to count/track cards, and to believe that my methodology is superior to Hi-Lo for betting, playing deviations and surrender & insurance decisions.

Or do you believe that the Model T was/is sufficient to get everyone from Point A to Point B, and that no one should expect improvements? Better fuel efficiency? Improvements in braking and other safety equipment? Manual transmissions and automatic transmission systems?

A ferarri will get you from point A to Point B faster, a Rolls Royce in more comfort and a Prius quite cheaply. If it's a long trip on a winding road, the Ferrari will get you there much faster, on a long straight highway on a long trip, the Rolls is way more comfortable but if it's a trip under 500 miles, you don't even have to stop at a gas station and the ride ain't so bad in the Prius.

HiLo is not the model T. While it's been in play for a long time, enhancements have been made to HiLo (I-18, indexes), there are optimal betting charts that did not exist in the 60's or 70's, there is ease of use and plenty of evidence to suggest that switching counts is not worth it. For those of us who often play rated or long sessions, the ease of HiLo makes it possible to have a great act and manage well barely looking at the table.

yes, other counts get you more under certain circumstances that do not come quite as often.

[Norm]

yes, other counts get you more under certain circumstances that do not come quite as often.

I am not an advocate of side counts, and generally advise simpler strategies. But, this statement is inaccurate. RPC will provide better results. You don't need "certain circumstances."

[LoneWoLF]

I am not an advocate of side counts, and generally advise simpler strategies. But, this statement is inaccurate. RPC will provide better results. You don't need "certain circumstances."

You dont know that. Until we get real world evidence, thats just an assumption based off a simulation that one count outperforms another. We need a case study of several people all using different counts playing for 20 years straight. The only thing sims are good for is to tell us if these systems get the money which they all do, but it doesnt tell us if one if better than the other.

[Norm]

This is the same kind of stuff you read in progression books.

[Bodarc]

We need a case study of several people all using different counts playing for 20 years straight.

Please let me know how your study turns out 20 years from now. Until then, you have no evidence so drop it.

[Freightman]

Of course it tells you which count makes more money. It's the ingredients you put in that satisfy YOUR taste when it's said and done. It really comes down to the individuals game plan and what makes sense for them to employ in order to maximize profits.

Tweaking to up the experience - Tabasco or Frank's Hot sauce.

I prefer Frank's - I put that shit on everything