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Thread: HiLo with Ace side count

  1. #14


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    Quote Originally Posted by KZman View Post
    Hi

    I really know than ASC for hi lo is not worth, but i am going to do it just some days for fun.

    What have i to do with my RC for betting purposes ?
    I found the answer for aceneutral counts ( HIOPT2), not for hi lo.

    Example : Shoe 6 decks, 3 decks left to play. 4 aces only seen. So 8 aces in excess in the left cards. RC=3.
    What number do i have to add to my RC for betting ?

    I know than if i were in Aceneutral count, i would have to add : Absolute value of 10 for count* excess/deficite of aces.

    For hilo, i dont know.
    For betting, you add nothing to RC because Hi-Lo already count aces in the main count. Trust me. I have written program to compare the scenarios on adjusted ace values (-2, -1, -0.5, 0, +0.5, +1, +2). The best adjusted value for ace in Hi-Lo is 0.

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by vhalen View Post
    "I was not using this adjustment for " ..double 11; 16 vs all dealer cards."
    Going forward I will use this adjustment for double 11 and 16 vs all."
    You do not see that Surpus/Deficit Aces are very useful for doubling 10's and 9's and Insurance?
    With your Hard 16's Aces play a very minor role.


  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    You do not see that Surpus/Deficit Aces are very useful for doubling 10's and 9's and Insurance?
    Perhaps so, but not very useful for increasing SCORE. Truly chasing pennies.

  4. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mofungoo View Post
    " ... chasing pennies"

    This is profoundly mistaken.
    Common rationalization for
    BJ laziness amongst amateurs.


  5. #18
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    If you want to Ace Side Count Hilo go to a Balanced Ace Side Count of A-1 and 2 +1 and Hiopt1 as your main count. Your playing decisions will have Hiopt1 PE of .61 rather than Hilo's 0.51 and you use Hilo (The Combined Count from adding the 2 counts' RC's to determine a Hilo Betting TC) for betting decisions. For playing decisions where the Ace acts as a strong high card, like doubling hard 8, 9 or 10, or splitting 9,9 or T,T, use Hilo but for all other playing decisions use Hiopt1. This is a very effective strategy for level 1 counting and suffers far less than Hilo alone in pitch games and is a nice improvement in shoe games.

  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    This is profoundly mistaken.
    Common rationalization for
    BJ laziness amongst amateurs
    Truly chasing pennies. Run a SCORE and see for yourself.

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mofungoo View Post
    "Run a SCORE and see for yourself."
    I took the requisite Graduate School courses in Probability and Statistics and Experimental Design; but where money is concerned, a purely pragmatic approach is the end-point; and as I like to say, "My skills pay my bills". I played BJ in the 80's but did not turn pro until 1992. I have done well for myself, my traipsing around the country ad infinitude, is something that I am getting too long in the tooth for.

  8. #21
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    When it comes to affecting SCORE in a positive way you want to increase EV while reducing variance. That is pretty hard to do but factoring ace density into doubles and splits for an ace neutral count for doubling 8, 9, 10, and even 11 or splitting 9,9 and T,T or taking insurance does affect both in the desired fashion. Since for almost all of these the ace acts as a high card in the matchup (except double 11 and insurance) the gain is much less for an ace reckoned count. The main count is strongest for these matchups where the ace acts as a high card when using an ace reckoned count.

  9. #22
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    I recommend to read old posts by Zenfighter or Cacarulo on this subject.

    https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/fo...heory-amp-Math
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    factoring ace density into doubles and splits for an ace neutral count for doubling 8, 9, 10, and even 11 or splitting 9,9 and T,T or taking insurance does affect both in the desired fashion.
    Yep, but the "desired fashion" doesn't impact the bottom line significantly. This is a lot of extra work, for not a lot of extra results.

  11. #24
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    My comment was for ace neutral counts. I said that only double 11 and inurance are impacted in the desired fashion with ace reckoned counts like Hilo.
    Quote Originally Posted by mofungoo View Post
    Yep, but the "desired fashion" doesn't impact the bottom line significantly. This is a lot of extra work, for not a lot of extra results.
    If you think that is a lot of extra work you aren't working hard enough. You are talking your hard doubles and 2 of your splits. One of which you may choose never to use. That is not much extra work. Less than 10% of the time do you even get a matchup you would consider the adjustment. Of those it is almost always obvious if the adjustment is a factor in the play. Close plays that you would need to actually do the calculation are rare and you could just use BS for them and not bother with the calculation. So you can get almost all the gain without actually calculating but just from seeing the adjustment changes the play and the adjusted RC is not close to the RC index derived from multiplying the index number times the number of unseen decks. The most accurate way to do index calculations is to multiply out the index by the number of unseen decks to get an actual RC index for the current situation. Just compare that to the RC to see which side of the decision threshold you are on. Most of the time no calculation is necessary as it is obvious.When it is close there is not much of a difference between possible decisions anyway. In my opinion wasting time to split those hairs on the really close decisions is much more of a waste of time than adjusting for the ace. You regularly waste a lot of time in what is basically a coin flip decision. Why not use the tome when you are considering putting extra money out to get that right. The cost of putting out money at the wrong time is obviously much higher than flat bet decisions.

  12. #25
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    My favorite plays are splitting 9's vs a dealer Ace or a dealer 7.

    BOTH are highly keyed to surplus Aces.

    With Hi-Opt II each Surplus Ace (per quarter-deck) is worth a

    Running Count adjustment for these plays of an amazing +6 and +4.

    Of course the sign is reversed for deficit Aces.

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