See the top rated post in this thread. Click here

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 62

Thread: Ohio Gamimg Law - Theory and Practice

  1. #51


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I still think it's 'Won't' because cheating is unlawful everywhere, counting is cheating nowhere, and disruptive is undefined except that it is both undesirable and legal. But it is basically as effective as 'Can't' in my view; and I wouldn't blame anyone for not making the same distinction that I do. I wouldn't be surprised if they never throw anyone out for fear of losing in court and establishing a precedent like NJ. And I wouldn't be surprised if an MO casino lost such a case in court. The problem with MO laws is they are weak; a reasonable person could interpret them to mean they might not be able to ban counters, so a casino could easily lose, and get a result exactly like the NJ decision requiring the commission to promulgate an affirmative rule before adverse action can be taken. I think it is wise you carry around that on your phone, because that's basically like telling the PB "OK, let's go to court and establish a precedent with YOUR name on it."

    Thank you Ryemo for sharing your actual experience and knowledge. I believe I understand why people cite Missouri as a place that cannot ban card counters.
    Last edited by Boz; 06-17-2016 at 08:43 AM.

  2. #52
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The mote in God's eye
    Posts
    11,247
    Blog Entries
    59


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    There is no need to establish a precedent. It is illegal in MO to bar someone for counting. It's in the code in black and white.
    "Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent." --André Gide

  3. #53


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    No problem

  4. #54
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The mote in God's eye
    Posts
    11,247
    Blog Entries
    59


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    The code states:

    1. You cannot be barred for anything that is not illegal or disruptive.
    2. Card counting is not illegal.

    This is a simple syllogism. The code would not have been written in this manner if card counting could be considered disruptive. A disruption is something than interrupts an event or procedure. Thinking is not disruptive.
    "Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent." --André Gide

  5. #55


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    But the OP decided a narrow interpretation works best for his purposes.
    Relax Boz (or should I say: "Lighten up Francis").

    The point of my original post was simply to learn more about this subject by soliciting comments on a theory that, based on the way the Ohio law is written, it appears that one could not be legally ejected for card counting alone. ZMF was quick to point out that he was ejected from an Ohio casino for nothing more than card counting. That is exactly the type of on-point commentary that I was looking for. I also appreciate the analysis of the MO law.

    From this thread, I've learned that the Ohio law is not written quite as strongly as the MO law in that it does not explicitly contain a presumptive right of access to table games. That being said, I still think that based on the way the Ohio law is written, a casino would have a hard time justifying the ejection of a patron purely for card counting. Of course, that doesn't mean that they won't do it as ZMF has testified, and I agree that only a "doofus" would ever bother challenging this in court. But if they did, my money would be on the doofus...

  6. #56


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    The code states:
    The code would not have been written in this manner if card counting could be considered disruptive.
    I respectfully disagree that your conclusion follows. The syllogism results in the conclusion you cannot be barred for card counting unless it's disruptive. If card counting was never disruptive, the code would have specified as much seems equally valid conclusion, if not more so. Most likely, they were purposely silent on the subject. One definition of disruptive is innovative, which is thinking--and any reasonable definition can be assigned to an undefined term. Further, loss of profit and countermeasures could be construed as disruptive. I'm convinced by Ryemo that they do not ban counters. But it's not in black and white--it needs common-law precedent to become against the law, from where I'm sitting. Because a non-frivolous interpretation can be made that they could ban counters until a court interprets that they cannot. Disruptive means nothing more than undesirable and legal in the regulation before you start attaching subjective meanings. I thought everyone would be happy that I believe they "Won't".
    Last edited by Boz; 06-17-2016 at 09:34 AM.

  7. #57
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The mote in God's eye
    Posts
    11,247
    Blog Entries
    59


    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    That is utter nonsense. Of course if you are yelling the count at the top of your lungs that would be disruptive. But, thinking is not disruptive in any dictionary. They were not silent on the subject. Card counting is NOT illegal. It is in black and white.

    You appear to be arguing for the sake of arguing, in more than one thread. That is, you are being disruptive.
    "Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent." --André Gide

  8. #58


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I agree with Norm here, but no need to keep pressing the subject. I'm sure we can all agree on this: Come to MO and you won't need to worry about getting backed off or barred from the casino, AS LONG AS YOU BEHAVE. If they deem you to be a serious threat, they will start looking for other reasons to throw you out. But if you're well-behaved and you're just straight card counting, then I can assure you that being thrown out will not be a concern. Let's move on. lol

  9. #59


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdaddy View Post
    Relax Boz (or should I say: "Lighten up Francis").
    I also appreciate the analysis of the MO law.
    .
    Geezus, thank you! I feel under-appreciated sometimes, so you're welcome. Yes, I believe MO may be unique.

  10. #60


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    That is utter nonsense. Of course if you are yelling the count at the top of your lungs that would be disruptive. But, thinking is not disruptive in any dictionary. They were not silent on the subject. Card counting is NOT illegal. It is in black and white.

    You appear to be arguing for the sake of arguing, in more than one thread. That is, you are being disruptive.
    Glad that you are finally seeing this. Every thread. What's the point?

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. The Theory of Blackjack
    By moses in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-03-2013, 05:18 PM
  2. More Voodoo theory
    By Ikerus in forum The Disadvantage Forum
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 01-26-2013, 10:25 AM
  3. Brick: BJ theory
    By Brick in forum Blackjack Main
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-19-2005, 03:20 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.