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Thread: Ohio Gamimg Law - Theory and Practice

  1. #14


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    Quote Originally Posted by mcallister3200 View Post
    I have seen flat bet in Missouri.
    I have been flat bet outside of Missouri. Nothing led me to believe they couldn't bar me. Most casinos implement countermeasures before barring. All Missouri seemed to do was officially standardize the practice.

  2. #15


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    So I'm no lawyer, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

    I also read (or tried to sift through) the laws on the Missouri Gaming Commission website.

    It looks like Missouri defines Blackjack, as well as some other table games, as games of skill. You can't exclude people from beating games of skill--just cheating them. They define cheating as team play, or using devices, or having inside info not available to he general public. For that, you can exclude.

    You can also exclude unsavory people, and there's a list of offenses which would qualify you as an unsavory person.

    Finally, they maintain a public list on the Internet of all excluded persons. In the past ten years, it looks like there may be 50 name on that list.


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  3. #16


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    Oh, and as an added thought, it also says they can't ask for ID for any reason other than to prove you're of legal age to gamble.


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  4. #17


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    Quote Originally Posted by RCJH View Post
    You can't exclude people from beating games of skill
    Who says? I purposely exclude good players from my home hopscotch/paper-rock-scissor game, so I know that I can exclude people based on skill. Why can't the casino? What law says that?

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    Why can't the casino? What law says that?
    He just told you what the law says.

  6. #19


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    He just told you what the law says.
    No, he didn't. He says the law defines blackjack as a game of skill (which I'm taking on faith, because I have my doubts). He then says "You can't exclude people from games of skill." Structurally, that's a second-person statement sandwiched between two third-person statements; and it genuinely appears to be his own interpretation.

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    No, he didn't. He says the law defines blackjack as a game of skill (which I'm taking on faith, because I have my doubts). He then says "You can't exclude people from games of skill." Structurally, that's a second-person statement sandwiched between two third-person statements; and it genuinely appears to be his own interpretation.
    And apparently the casino's interpretation. If they interpret things that way don't you think it is so or do you think the casinos just decided not to back people off for counting and just use countermeasures instead.

  8. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    And apparently the casino's interpretation. If they interpret things that way don't you think it is so or do you think the casinos just decided not to back people off for counting and just use countermeasures instead.
    Apparently the casino's? Where you getting that from?

    I've heard of games of skill not being legally considered gambling. You can't possibly be arguing that blackjack isn't gambling. So I don't know what you're saying.

  9. #22


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    Box, do you just like to argue?

    Here's the link to the Missouri gaming website.

    From there, follow the links to all the regulations. You can read them all yourself, if you'd prefer.

    http://www.mgc.dps.mo.gov/


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  10. #23


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    Quote Originally Posted by RCJH View Post
    Box, do you just like to argue?

    Here's the link to the Missouri gaming website.

    From there, follow the links to all the regulations. You can read them all yourself, if you'd prefer.

    http://www.mgc.dps.mo.gov/

    I read the rules. A Snyder article cites the rule where 'tracking cards is not cheating' as authority for his statement that Missouri can't bar counters. However, after reading it, all I see are a bunch of procedures that are probably implemented 24/7 to prevent pro card counting attacks. While also making sure to prevent legal issues arising out of pit critters picking out random suspicious people, accusing them of cheating, and having security manhandle them.

    Then I went to the Policies section. (3) The holder of a Class A or B license isexpressly prohibited from the following activities: (J)...to permit any typeof conduct on the riverboat which reflectsnegatively on the repute of the state of Missourior acts as a detriment to the gamingindustry;

    Does card counting act to the detriment of the gaming industry? I believe the casinos believe that it does. So this law specifically forbids NOT barring card counters. That's a bit of a strong reading, but I think this reg is more clear than the other one supposedly not allowing casinos to 86 anyone. So I'm still waiting for my explanation. I wouldn't have asked if I could find the answer on my own. If all anyone can come up with is a link to a homepage, then I'm convinced no one knows what they are talking about and it's completely OK for them to ban people.

    I'm not arguing to argue. I wanted to know. But I don't mind arguing, I'm good at it.

  11. #24


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    I believe the foundation for trespass actions is property law. If I own a vacant lot and you come on that property, then I have the right to trespass you. It is not about what actions you did, but your very presence on my property. I am not required to have cause. The casinos maintain this fundamental right with their ownership.

    Being backed off or having other countermeasures applied are a different issue.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  12. #25


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    You can be banned in Ohio for counting. Just ask the guy that is now a dealer at one of the Ohio casino's.

  13. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    Does card counting act to the detriment of the gaming industry?
    Card counting was the biggest boom the gaming industry ever saw. Before that BJ was a fringe game. Now it brings more people into the casino than would ever visit because they see games as being beatable whether they know how to do it or not. This is historic fact that continues to this day and is not subject to debate. Each new moving is followed a revenue boom for the casino.

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