When they mess with you

[Boz]

This is a hint to tip. You can tip or not tip but saying something like I will tip what I want when I want and pressuring me to tip will only decrease what you ultimately get in both amount and frequency usually gets rid of this tip hawking behavior.

Possibly, but I doubt it. I was playing a break-even spread at the place I was staying. So when the PBs were chatting me up, I took this as heat and decided to play through it and let them bar me if they wanted. I'd normally overreact to an obvious tip hint like that--it pisses me off when they are so blatant, and I don't find that kind of jockeying to be common. I took it as a fairly effective distraction combined with her being the fastest dealer I had ever seen. I also wasn't winning. But what you say is possible; I've certainly seen the hawking before.

[Boz]

I don't argue tips. I just tip. Dealers who argue over the quality or quantity of a tip should work at the gas station instead and see if they like the tips there.

I tip most dealers less now since I started going to Vegas. On my first trip there, I tipped like I normally did. A small tip when I leave. A number of times, I actually heard the dealer bitching about the tip I left. I couldn't believe it. That's 2 or 3 dollars I just pissed away. If everyone tipped that, they'd be making a whole lot more money. Two dealers, I was damn close to going back and demanding the tip back. So now, I give a few dealers a decent sized tip that they will say thank you too...a few more get something I know they won't gripe at...and most get $0.

[Three]

Possibly, but I doubt it. I was playing a break-even spread at the place I was staying

Why would you get heat for a break even spread? When you get paid or colored up in smaller chips than makes sense without requesting it they are giving you those chips to use for something. Obviously they made the observation if they pay chip for chip you aren't tipping those bigger chips. They are giving you smaller chips in the hope you will tip with them. I had one dealer color me up after I counted an even multiple of hundred dollars and put the rest except for her tip in my pocket. She gave me the last hundred in smaller denomination chips. I said I wanted it in black chips. She refused and said if you don't know why I am giving you smaller chips I will not color them up for you. She was hoping for a red chip or chips. I had been green chipping and then showed her the green chip in my hand that would have been her tip but it went into my pocket with the others. I knew why she was giving me small chips and it was why she didn't get a tip when she refused to give me another black chip. Dealers know I tip well on wins and try to help me win so they not only don't get stiffed but get a big tip. I am sure the other dealers read her the riot act.

A small tip when I leave. A number of times, I actually heard the dealer bitching about the tip I left. I couldn't believe it. That's 2 or 3 dollars I just pissed away. If everyone tipped that, they'd be making a whole lot more money.

Tips are tools to train dealers to give you what you want. You don't tip for no reason. The dealer is trying to figure out what makes you tip. It s like training a dog. You can't tell them what you want but you have a reward tool to train them what you want. If they care about tips, which you obviously believe they do, they are easily trained. Some have locked up spots for invisible players for me. Others give me great pen. Others seem to make more mistakes. I had one finish dealing the hand and playing his hand when I pointed out his mistake so I could take my options knowing he already busted. I had a lot of unbeatable hands on my split that was misdealt so I got to double everything with a big bets out knowing the dealer had already busted. At a different store a fast dealer pulled cards early a lot and could see them himself. He had a way of making me know if I wanted it or not. Another checked for BJ before offering it often. She would say nobody wants insurance right if she didn't have it and something much more inviting when she did.

Too many AP's make the dealer their enemy when the truth is they get at least half their pay in tips. You are in it with them and they know it. Losing players don't tip. Certain winners tip and they will do what they can to help them. I was at a table full of ploppies the dealer saw the next card and said someone needs to hit. I had a made hand and couldn't hit. The ploppies all and hittable hands and not one was smart enough to hit. The card gave was a low card that would have made any of their hands. Instead it made the dealers hand and everyone lost.

[BJGenius007]

I tip most dealers less now since I started going to Vegas. On my first trip there, I tipped like I normally did. A small tip when I leave. A number of times, I actually heard the dealer bitching about the tip I left. I couldn't believe it. That's 2 or 3 dollars I just pissed away.

Sir, it is your personality. I bet even if you tip them $10, they will still bitch.

[Freightman]

Sir, it is your personality. I bet even if you tip them $10, they will still bitch.

Some dealers do work hard, are pleasant to play with, essentially like most people struggling to make a living. A lot of dealers, unfortunately, are toke whores - smile with you, but will essentially screw you in the left ear when you turn your head. They always bitch.

[Boz]

Why would you get heat for a break even spread?

Because I played it uncapped; i.e. proportional. While it is mathematically similar to a small spread over time, it can get large in high counts. And it did. And I was on an empty table in an empty pit. With my Tourette's Count.

When you get paid or colored up in smaller chips than makes sense

It pisses me off. They don't get tipped at all if I think they are panhandling. I've never seen it cause mistakes. I tip more if the dealer has already made mistakes in case the dealer is a criminal willing to give me 90% to split her 10% with 100 dealers. And if you think tipping causes mistakes, I guess I got a windfall there.

Tips are tools to train dealers to give you what you want. You don't tip for no reason.

Too expensive to be useful. I do tip for no reason; because it's humane. I try to do so as little as possible.

Losing players don't tip.

I try to be in a bad mood as much as possible.

[Three]

Originally Posted by Tthree

Tips are tools to train dealers to give you what you want. You don't tip for no reason.
Too expensive to be useful. I do tip for no reason; because it's humane. I try to do so as little as possible.

Dealers are either clueless or easily trained. The latter it doesn't cost much to train them. Then tipping is profitable rather than costly.

[Boz]

Sir, it is your personality. I bet even if you tip them $10, they will still bitch.

Yes, because I sit down at blackjack tables and tell the dealers how stupid their conspiracy theories are. That's their problem, not the 2 dollar tip they got after I won $100 in 10 minutes. Right on again.

[Boz]

Dealers are either clueless or easily trained. The latter it doesn't cost much to train them. Then tipping is profitable rather than costly.

Train them to do what? Give me blackjacks, steal from the tray, and give me 99% penetration? Dealers are essentially useless, and most of them hate APs.

[Three]

The dealers I encounter don't get paid shit by the casino and see tippers as their true employers. The hate non-tippers. If an AP is a stiff they aren't going to like them and don't want them at their table. If the AP adds to the tip bin and gets others to tip more they want them at their table as much as possible. Their livelihood relies on tips and it is your job to help them know what will make you tip. Once that is established you will get it. I had a dealer apologize for the pen he was giving me. He said corporate suits were in the casino that day and that was the best he could do after putting in the cut card to set the pen. The funny thing was he was still giving better pen than any other dealer at the casino does normally. He would cut deep and when my bets got big do what he could to keep others off the table. Sometimes he would lock spots up with lammers. I would tend to do really well when he dealt to me and tipped him accordingly. My view of dealers is very very different than yours and my earnings are at least 10% higher and much more predictable because of it. I even had one dealer make me sit out in a very bad count. It was pretty funny. She made the person that was sitting out play while I sat out because she wouldn't let me do what I wanted to do. The only way to get what I wanted was to sit out and the other player had to play to get through the shoe since they don't remove cards from the shoe when nobody was playing. I was just trying to get to the next shoe as cheap as possible and stay at the dealers table. Then I crushed the next shoe and tipped her a green along with some bets along the way.

I am not saying you should tip big but tips must be on par with your winnings. When you are crushing the game for big wins and few losses you need to tip the dealers that help you get there.

[Boz]

I know what you're saying, but too expensive. Paying a random dealer to be my friend, which would result in +EV over the long-term, is a speculative idea at best.

[Three]

You can find out quick enough if they are clueless or trainable. I was getting shit cuts time after time then the relief dealer came on and gave a shit cut. The next round she cut thin and I put a dollar bet one each hand. The next shoe she cut thin and I toked a dollar on each hand. Then the other dealer came back and she whispered something in her ear and she cut thin so I toked $1 on each hand. It wasn't long after that that I went from down a good bit with the shit cuts to more than my usual win tolerance threshold before the advantage disappeared. It took 1 set of timely tokes to show the great pen would get a set of tokes and a set of tokes each shoe to continue it. Then since I was green chipping a green chip at the end. It cost me $35 to change a fairly good sized loss into a win higher than I am comfortable with from that extra deck dealt out in high counts. To me that is a bargain. KJ would tell me I toked $5K total at the end of the year and it cut into my EV a lot while I would be thinking I won an extra $20K above the $5K investment and won my win tolerance goal with far less exposure which is great for longevity. I guess it is a matter of perspective. I think KJ is short sighted.

[Boz]

T3, I think you're imagining things. Dealers don't know what penetration even is. You're confusing correlation with causation. I woulda tipped the two girl dealers to lick each other's ears as you scantily portray, but not in some attempt to train them like circus monkeys. Anyway, I learned in 9th grade that profoundly retarded people are not trainable. No offense dealers here who are not stupid.