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Thread: Some simple questions about counting...

  1. #1


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    Cool Some simple questions about counting...

    Learning the RPC, and I have a few questions: Wong's book seems to be the reference guide for the full count of Hi-Lo indices. Where do I go to get full index numbers for other counts, e.g. RPC? Do people just generally use the Hi-Lo indexes regardless of counting method? Which one of the dozens of CV software suites do I want to buy if all I want to do is generate my own indexes (e.g. I want to enter in # decks, rules, counting method, etc.)? Sorry for the dumb questions, and thanks in advance for any help!!

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    RPC indices are very similar to Hi-Lo's. You're fine if you use them, if you're dividing by half-decks.

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    So, I am playing in CVData/CVCX, and these FELT-F indices seem to be almost double the Hi-Lo indices I'm used to seeing... I assume that these FELT-F indices are more accurate? (And yes, I am dividing by half decks.) Thanks.

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    In FELT, you divide by full decks. If you are dividing by half decks, they'd be completely wrong. I suggest you understand what you are doing first.

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    Oh! I assumed that I wanted to be accurate to the half-deck but still divide by the number of decks. (Like... dividing by 5.5, 4.5, and so on...) Thanks for clarifying! I clearly have no idea what I am doing, and that's why I'm here. There seem to be a dearth of counting methods, but most of the information I find relates to Hi-Lo. I am just asking questions and trying to learn. Thanks again for your answers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifoundwaldo View Post
    Oh! I assumed that I wanted to be accurate to the half-deck but still divide by the number of decks. (Like... dividing by 5.5, 4.5, and so on...) Thanks for clarifying! I clearly have no idea what I am doing, and that's why I'm here. There seem to be a dearth of counting methods, but most of the information I find relates to Hi-Lo. I am just asking questions and trying to learn. Thanks again for your answers.
    Dividing by 4.5 or 5.5 is dividing by full decks--it's just more accurate to do that than rounding to the nearest integer. Dividing by half-decks would be dividing by 9 instead of 4.5 because 4.5 decks is 9 half-decks.

    If this is all news to you, I strongly discourage RPC for the time being, as you probably can't handle it.
    Last edited by Boz; 06-14-2016 at 08:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifoundwaldo View Post
    Where do I go to get full index numbers for other counts, e.g. RPC?

    Do people just generally use the Hi-Lo indexes regardless of counting method?

    Which one of the dozens of CV software suites do I want to buy if all I want to do is generate my own indexes (e.g. I want to enter in # decks, rules, counting method, etc.)?
    For other counts a Google will usually lead you to indexes or a book to purchase with the info. Otherwise you could go to CVCX and view the strategies provided.
    I didn't find much on RPC and assume you've already seen this: https://www.qfit.com/revere-point-count.htm

    People do not typically use the same indexes for different counts, although some are strategies are similar enough where a lot value wouldn't be lost.

    CVData is great for generating your own indexes. You should go this route.

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    You should, for the sake of understanding the game get the CVCX/CVData packages. For training purposes Casino Verite is the software package to buy. All of the index numbers for the various systems are in Casino Verite. As for the original system sources usually it's in the books of the developer. Hi-Opt 1 is in "Worlds Greatest Blackjack Book", AO2 is in "Blackjack for Blood" Zen and Red 7 are in "Blackbelt in Blackjack". The Uston counts are in "Million Dollar Blackjack". I'd guess Revere's count is in "Playing Blackjack As A Business" unless it's one of the counts he sold separately. Hi-Opt 2 was also sold as a separate package. Halves is in "Profesional Blackjack".

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigplayer View Post
    I'd guess Revere's count is in "Playing Blackjack As A Business"
    You'd guess correct, but the qfit link I provided in the post above mentions it not provide indexes for multi-deck games.

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    A full listing of card point values and corresponding systems of counting can be found in Norm's book on this site. Read it! Norm created the count called FELT. He insists it's a little better than other counts that are comparably easy and many that are harder. I haven't gotten into building my own count system or indexes yet, nor have I tried to learn a new count, but many people on this site have built their own way of counting with their own card values and indexes. Some use rather unbalanced and weird fractional value counts. Some value ace side counts, esp those that play SD and DD. Some are so advanced that the best I can make of it they record every card, possibly even down to suit, and then rather than having point-count systems they have relative matrices based on card value relations (effect of removal, or EOR is considered, possibly more strategies I don't yet understand) and different sub counts (e.g., aces) that increase or decrease certain odds in certain situations. And built into those systems are small cover plays as well. Pretty cool if ya ask me.

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    Personally, I think starting with Hi-lo or FELT is a no-brainer. They are easy to learn and, more importantly, master, from what I have seen, and have a lot in common. And their rated qualities shine against other counts that aren't so easy to use. A good stepping stone that's plenty useful if you want to get into more complex counts or building your own...

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    All indexes are unique to the counting system you employ. Many are quite similar however. This can be confusing or easy to remember depending on your level of understanding and context. I'm still working on that, but I suspect comparative studies of counts would be the best way to build that understanding and context.

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    Let's not turn this into a 'what count is best debate' or 'this software is recommended' thread.

    CVData is what he needs to generate indices, which is what the OP asked. Hi-Lo is probably the best of the balanced counts, because it is easiest, for someone so green he doesn't know what dividing by a half-deck means...and all the information about it is free on the Internet. FELT is a better choice than RPC for the same reason, in addition to RPC requiring better deck estimation skills and having weaker resolution in a shoe. Hi-Lo is easier than FELT because it is a level-1 count with lower (more manageable) index numbers.

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