Behavior suggestions when being backroomed

**Stealth** · 05-22-2016, 10:17 AM

Suggestions when being back roomed:

1.Turn on the video recording app on your phone and leave it running. Take pictures and or video of anything and everything possible.
2. or use the app ACLU Police Tape (Iphone, android?) which will record everything with a blank screen.
3. Repeatedly ask why you are being detained. Have I committed a crime?
4. If refusing to show ID and they call in police then give ID to police and tell them they do not have your permission to provide them to the casino. Get the police name and badge.
5. Tell them you want a lawyer and call one, NOW!
6. Tell them you want Gaming and call them, NOW!
7. Do not threaten them with lawsuits or other retribution as it may escalate the issue.
8. Do not touch the suits, security or police.
9. Stay calm, unemotional and matter of fact with all responses.
10. Respond as little as possible, no matter the subject or question.

Please add or critique this list as your experience or knowledge dictates.........!

**Boz** · 05-22-2016, 10:32 AM

Tell them no, and walk out. They have no authority to detain you unless they suspect you've committed a felony. Not even a misdemeanor (i.e. trespassing). In my experience, they will attempt to backroom you out of intimidation; but often give up when you aren't intimidated and look the leader of the escort in the eye and say NO, I don't think so. Most people are probably back-roomed because they volunteer to go back there. And there's no law against a casino taking frightened volunteers to the back room. These volunteers are not true detainees.

**moses** · 05-22-2016, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Boz

Tell them no, and walk out. They have no authority to detain you unless they suspect you've committed a felony. Not even a misdemeanor.

True. But it just takes one idiot SG that gets carried away. One things is for sure, I'm not going into anyones backroom with the odds 4 or 5 to 1. If we're going to get physical then it will be in front of God and everybody. If it's police that detain you then they have to read your rights. Right?

**Stealth** · 05-22-2016, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Boz

Tell them no, and walk out. They have no authority to detain you unless they suspect you've committed a felony.

Which is precisely why you need to get a lawyer! It is the over reach of their authority that we are contesting.

Back offs are impudent, single time interruptions of play, forced detention and back rooming is illegal without probable cause.

**Boz** · 05-22-2016, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by moses

True. But it just takes one idiot SG that gets carried away. One things is for sure, I'm not going into anyones backroom with the odds 4 or 5 to 1. If we're going to get physical then it will be in front of God and everybody. If it's police that detain you then they have to read your rights. Right?

I hesitate to respond, but hopefully things have calmed down by now. No, the police do not have to read you your rights before detaining you. There is no requirement to Mirandize someone before taking them into custody, nor before asking them questions. When both factors are present, the person is in custody and is being asked questions (interrogated), then the Miranda warning must be issued or else nothing the person in detention says can be used as evidence. And again, this wouldn't apply in a casino back-room. Since police aren't generally seeking more evidence of card counting and nothing is going to criminal trial, it doesn't really matter that they can't use what was said in court.

**Boz** · 05-22-2016, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Stealth

Which is precisely why you need to get a lawyer! It is the over reach of their authority that we are contesting.

Back offs are impudent, single time interruptions of play, forced detention and back rooming is illegal without probable cause.

Probable cause doesn't apply to casinos. It's overstepping the shopkeeper's privilege that is the issue.

It's not a bad idea to have the number of a lawyer in case something happens. But I think having knowledge, as well as a spine, and not volunteering for the back-room would avoid many so-called illegal detentions that are actually arguably legal. If you are not forced back there and/or forced to stay there, regardless of how it seems, you likely could leave.

**Stealth** · 05-22-2016, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Boz

Probable cause doesn't apply to casinos.

I suggest your facts are inadequate in the situation of back rooming.

**Boz** · 05-22-2016, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Stealth

I suggest your facts are inadequate in the situation of back rooming.

Casino personnel are not agents of the government. Therefore, probable cause has no meaning in your context. If it wasn't clear, I am suggesting your terms do not make sense.

**Stealth** · 05-22-2016, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Boz

Casino personnel are not agents of the government. Therefore, probable cause has no meaning in your context. If it wasn't clear, I am suggesting your terms do not make sense.

Would suggest you research this before jumping to a conclusion. Probable cause is a real issue for security actions in casinos.

**Boz** · 05-22-2016, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Stealth

Would suggest you research this before jumping to a conclusion. Probable cause is a real issue for security actions in casinos.

I don't know how many ways I can say the same thing. If you choose to confusingly use the term "probable cause" in this context, it means something different than if you use it as a legal standard. I suggest you not spend five minutes using Google for research purposes and then accuse others of needing to do more research.

**moses** · 05-22-2016, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Boz

No, the police do not have to read you your rights before detaining you. There is no requirement to Mirandize someone before taking them into custody, nor before asking them questions. When both factors are present, the person is in custody and is being asked questions (interrogated), then the Miranda warning must be issued or else nothing the person in detention says can be used as evidence. And again, this wouldn't apply in a casino back-room. Since police aren't generally seeking more evidence of card counting and nothing is going to criminal trial, it doesn't really matter that they can't use what was said in court.

Hmmm. I didn't know that. But then, I've never been arrested. There was one time security followed me after I was backed off (not 86ed). The backoff was a polite nature on both parts. So I turned around and ask him what was up? He didn't really have a valid explanation. Sort of mumbled something about not wanting any trouble. I said "I'm leaving, why would you expect trouble?" Then, "stop acting so nervous because that's making me nervous." I took him as a younger inexperienced man trying to do his job and not understanding his role.

Point is, sometimes these guys get scared and crazy stuff happens. Sometimes a big guy can say "shit" and create more of a commotion than when the average size person actually does it.

**Boz** · 05-22-2016, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by moses

Hmmm. I didn't know that. But then, I've never been arrested. There was one time security followed me after I was backed off (not 86ed). The backoff was a polite nature on both parts. So I turned around and ask him what was up? He didn't really have a valid explanation. Sort of mumbled something about not wanting any trouble. I said "I'm leaving, why would you expect trouble?" Then, "stop acting so nervous because that's making me nervous." I took him as a younger inexperienced man trying to do his job and not understanding his role.

Point is, sometimes these guys get scared and crazy stuff happens. Sometimes a big guy can say "shit" and create more of a commotion than when the average size person actually does it.

It's true. Miranda warnings are generally only issued when you are being accused of a crime. And sharp officers will attempt to get information from you without issuing the warning so as not to tip you off to your true predicament, which is legal so long as they otherwise comply with the law. The best advice is to never answer any questions a police officer asks you, except those that are legally required or those that are innocuous (or those that may help you expedite a traffic stop). Regardless of your innocence, never consent to a search (but do not resist).

**Norm** · 05-22-2016, 05:02 PM

Well, as I understand it, Miranda must be issued if they are questioning you because they seriously suspect you of a crime and that is why they are questioning you -- even before you have been accused. But, getting them to admit they failed Miranda, and the fact that jurors don't give a shit, is another problem. Again, IANAL.