New Here. Question

[LoneWoLF]

First off, great forum, and great discussion, with lots of helpful answers. Long time lurker, first time poster. Im currently learning the index plays for Hi-Lo and if i read correctly in the past, 4 deck indexes are nearly identical to 6 and 8 deck indexes? Is there any meaningful lost dollars in using 4 deck indexes for an 6 or even 8 deck game?

[Romes]

Hi LoneWoLF, and welcome (or should I say to finally posting) to the forums =P.

4 deck indexes can be treated as 6 & 8 deck indexes. Very very little mathematically is different. The big differences (which a lot are still the same) come in single and double deck. Even the "advanced" strategy cards sold most places (blackjack info) for example sell a card for 1D, 2D, then "4D/6D/8D" grouped together. In my opinion, you would not lose anything statistically relevant by using 6D indexes on 4D.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

There are indexed play differences between H17 and SD17

games, the most notable of which is doubling your 11 vs. an Ace.

There are some Basic Strategy changes as well; as there

are between Double Deck / Single Deck games and shoe games.

For a COMPLETELY accurate table see (the most recently printed) 3rd ed.

of "Blackjack Attack" ~ or see the complete tables in:

"The Theory of Blackjack" (5th or 6th ed.)

[Tarzan]

I have the 2D plan and the 6D plan. My indices for 6D are based on 4 decks remaining. Most indices are exactly the same for the DD game as they are for the 6D game. The ones that differ (S17) between 2D and 6D (for me) are: 8vs4, 9vs7, 9vs8, 10vs7, 10vsT, 10vsA, 11vs7, 11vs8, 11vsT, 13vs2, 13vs3, 13vs6, 15vs4, 15vs8, 15vs9, 15vsT, 16vs2, 16vs8, A2vs5, A3vs6, A7vs3, A7vsA, A8vs4, A9vs4. Then there is 2D H17 to consider. For H17 the hands that differ from S17 for me are 7vs6, 9vs2, 9vs6, 11vsA, 12vs6, 13vs6, 14vs6, 15vsA, 16vsA, A2vs6, A3vs6, A7vs6, A9vs6, 44vs6, 99vs6, TTvs6.

You have to go with what is applicable to the specific game you are playing. 4D, 6D are pretty much exactly the same thing though. There is a considerable difference between S17 and H17 on some hands, in some instances much more drastic than the differences between 1D and 6D. If you are playing a 6D game and down to the last two decks, guess what? You are now playing a 2D game and would use the index for 2D at this point, where there is a difference on some hands between 2D and 6D. Some slight difference between 4D and 6D is inconsequential but you would adjust as you get deeper into the 6D shoe if you want to be exact about it.

[Bigdaddy]

First off, great forum, and great discussion, with lots of helpful answers. Long time lurker, first time poster. Im currently learning the index plays for Hi-Lo and if i read correctly in the past, 4 deck indexes are nearly identical to 6 and 8 deck indexes? Is there any meaningful lost dollars in using 4 deck indexes for an 6 or even 8 deck game?

A 4-deck game? Where's that at? (sorry Don - ending a sentence with a preposition is bad grammar). I would love to lurk around that game (depending on pen of course).

[Norm]

About 1% of games in the U.S. are 4-deck. But, the indices aren't that much different.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Four (4) deck games exist on some Indian Reservations.
For that matter, I know of several three (3) deck games !

[MJGolf]

Four (4) deck games exist on some Indian Reservations.
For that matter, I know of several three (3) deck games !

Bring back the good ol' days...........remember when the Trop had 4 deck shoes and THAT was the shoe games? They had plenty of single decks and a few DD games. I didn't know what I was missing or had at the time............LOL

The 8 deckers are such aberrations..........it seems it takes FOREVER to finish a shoe.

[Tarzan]

The index for 4 decks remaining is all but identical to the index for 6 decks remaining, even by my standards. It's farther in beyond 4 decks that it alters. 2 decks remaining is different than 4 decks remaining, though (hands I pointed out). I suppose you could gradually drop it off, such as the case of an index TC+8 with 4 decks remaining but the index is TC+6 at 2 decks remaining? Just to be fanciful about it you go with +7 if you have 3 decks remaining?

[DatabaseGuy]

Four (4) deck games exist on some Indian Reservations.
For that matter, I know of several three (3) deck games !

One in my neck of the wood. I still have to try it. But the heat there is intense, not just because it's in Tucson.

Some local Indian casinos used to have 4D in the high stakes area but switched them to 6D now.

[Tarzan]

If you have a 4D game available jump on it. I enjoyed the short-lived 4D game at Tropicana AC way back when. They were really having a panic attack over those games though. I saw some classic episodes of "pit personnel behaving badly".

[LoneWoLF]

The index for 4 decks remaining is all but identical to the index for 6 decks remaining, even by my standards. It's farther in beyond 4 decks that it alters. 2 decks remaining is different than 4 decks remaining, though (hands I pointed out). I suppose you could gradually drop it off, such as the case of an index TC+8 with 4 decks remaining but the index is TC+6 at 2 decks remaining? Just to be fanciful about it you go with +7 if you have 3 decks remaining?

What about for 8 deck games? I ask about 4-deck because thats what Wong uses in Professional Blackjack

[Stealth]

There are 4 deck games in Minnesota