Optional shuffling

[davethebuilder]

Norm,

Is there any way to simulate Optional Shuffling in CV Data? I play 6 deck shoe BJ, 4.5/6 pen, S17, BB+1 and standard rules, HE=0.56. The player has the option of asking for a new shoe after 25% of the cards have been dealt and this is usually done if the TC turns very negative and is unlikely to recover since many aces/picture cards have been already dealt. We do not have a "no mid shoe entry" rule.

[Norm]

Hmm, Wonging by depth only works by full decks. You would need to set up a multi-betting strategy. Set the first strategy to be used for the first 25% of the shoe and the second to handle the remainder. The second strategy would wong out at whatever count you wish.

[Bigdaddy]

Norm,

Is there any way to simulate Optional Shuffling in CV Data? I play 6 deck shoe BJ, 4.5/6 pen, S17, BB+1 and standard rules, HE=0.56. The player has the option of asking for a new shoe after 25% of the cards have been dealt and this is usually done if the TC turns very negative and is unlikely to recover since many aces/picture cards have been already dealt. We do not have a "no mid shoe entry" rule.

Wow - nice option! Heads you win, tails they lose. But I suppose you don't want to be the person asking for the shuffle; i.e., you might as well just tell them you're a counter. Probably best to try and influence the ploppies at the table to make such a request?

[davethebuilder]

Actually, if a player wants to utilise this rule they must get the agreement of all the other players at the table otherwise play continues as usual. It is only available at the $100 tables and in my experience is mainly asked for after a player has lost many hands in a row. The casino uses this rule to keep the player gambling and it works.

[davethebuilder]

Hmm, Wonging by depth only works by full decks. You would need to set up a multi-betting strategy. Set the first strategy to be used for the first 25% of the shoe and the second to handle the remainder. The second strategy would wong out at whatever count you wish.

Thank you Norm, I think I found something there.

[RS]

I don't think asking for a shuffle is suspicious, assuming it's not done very frequently. But then again, if this casino is used to regulars frequently asking for a shuffle....I think it'd be good. I don't know how frequently a shoe turns into "this should be re-shuffled" status, but asking for it once every 2 or 3 bad shoes (which is probably equal to one every 10 shoes I'd guess)....would probably appear to be normal-enough not to warrant investigation. Might even be smart to ramp up a little bit once you're at the "this shoe sucks" point, and play until you lose 1 or 2 in a row, then request a re shuffle. If you win a few in a row, drop the bet down then continue min-betting throughout the shoe, and chalk it up as being part of the bad-shoes that you'll play through....that is of course, assuming that's how your play style has been.

[Bodarc]

Set the first strategy to be used for the first 25% of the shoe and the second to handle the remainder. The second strategy would wong out at whatever count you wish.

Is it possible to set the first strategy to be played for three shoes, and the second strategy to be played on the fourth shoe and then repeated?

[davethebuilder]

I don't think asking for a shuffle is suspicious, assuming it's not done very frequently. But then again, if this casino is used to regulars frequently asking for a shuffle....I think it'd be good. I don't know how frequently a shoe turns into "this should be re-shuffled" status, but asking for it once every 2 or 3 bad shoes (which is probably equal to one every 10 shoes I'd guess)....would probably appear to be normal-enough not to warrant investigation. Might even be smart to ramp up a little bit once you're at the "this shoe sucks" point, and play until you lose 1 or 2 in a row, then request a re shuffle. If you win a few in a row, drop the bet down then continue min-betting throughout the shoe, and chalk it up as being part of the bad-shoes that you'll play through....that is of course, assuming that's how your play style has been.

Since my first post the rules have changed. The number of decks have increased from 6 to 8 and the 25% rule has been removed so a player can now ask for a shuffle at any time. The shuffling is done by ASM which takes 10 minutes and is mainly requested on heads up play because on a full table you cannot always get the agreement of all the other players. Red flags are set off by a players bet spread, not the shuffle frequency so you need to work out what is tolerated and play accordingly. The dealers also have some discretion over the cut card placement so you can do reasonably well if your friendly, polite and discreet about it. It should also be remembered that the casino can preferentially shuffle on a player at any time which can alter the odds but this is rare and in my opinion comes close to cheating.

Some of the older members might remember the Reno shuffle. I understand the house rule was for the dealer to shuffle the cards if the player raised his bet by a certain amount or a certain multiple. So the player could intentionally force a shuffle in a negative situation and then start again.