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Thread: Insurance at +2.5

  1. #1


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    Insurance at +2.5

    I've been trying to catch up on what I've missed the last few days on the forum and a post in the blackjack record thread caught my eye.

    Does anyone use +2.5 rather than +3 for Hi-Lo shoe game insurance or would otherwise recommend it?

    Is there any special treatment any of you (Hi-Lo or not) give when generating or using an insurance index?

  2. #2


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    Insuring good hands when close to index is acceptable.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by NotEnoughHeat View Post
    I've been trying to catch up on what I've missed the last few days on the forum and a post in the blackjack record thread caught my eye.

    Does anyone use +2.5 rather than +3 for Hi-Lo shoe game insurance or would otherwise recommend it?

    Is there any special treatment any of you (Hi-Lo or not) give when generating or using an insurance index?
    Here is an article about "Fraction Insurance Index".

    https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/en...nsurance-Index

  4. #4


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    I play only DD games and insurance is extremely useful for me. But I got some heat in my local casino last time I played there. I saved my max bet ($150) 6 times with bad cards and the dealer told PB, "He is very good on insurance, 6 out of 6." and then the dealer asked me "How you do that? Can you see through my card?"
    I follow this scheme (Hi Low):
    TC =3+ - Insure Full all types of hand
    TC =2-3 - Insure Full with 11, 20, 19 and buy 50% insurance on other hands
    TC =1-2 - Insure 25% on 11, 20, 19

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by vhalen View Post
    "I got some heat in my local casino ... "
    You got heat alright - in the form of a warning. Take Heed.

    There are aware that being "lucky" 6 times running when

    you have meaningful wagers is NOT a coincidence.

    So ... now you stay away; although you may have already been added to OSN or been flyer'd.

    It is trivially easy for Surveillance to check the tapes and see what the count was when you both

    upped your bet AND took Insurance.


  6. #6


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    "Does anyone use +2.5 rather than +3 for Hi-Lo shoe game insurance or would otherwise recommend it?"

    If the 6-deck Hi-Lo insurance index is +3.0, what is your motivation for wanting to insure too early?

    Don

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by NotEnoughHeat View Post
    I've been trying to catch up on what I've missed the last few days on the forum and a post in the blackjack record thread caught my eye.

    Does anyone use +2.5 rather than +3 for Hi-Lo shoe game insurance or would otherwise recommend it?

    Is there any special treatment any of you (Hi-Lo or not) give when generating or using an insurance index?
    Theoretically, +2.667 is the cut-off point that buying insurance and not buying has the same ev for Hi-Lo system. Personally I use +2.667.

  8. #8
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I use 2.71828, except on Wednesdays.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    You got heat alright - in the form of a warning. Take Heed.

    There are aware that being "lucky" 6 times running when

    you have meaningful wagers is NOT a coincidence.

    So ... now you stay away; although you may have already been added to OSN or been flyer'd.

    It is trivially easy for Surveillance to check the tapes and see what the count was when you both

    upped your bet AND took Insurance.


    Thanks for the advice. I am not planning to go there very soon and also will avoid the same PB. After that incident, PB was monitoring me closely and I intentionally stayed longer and tried all kind of camouflage even bet high on negative count few times etc. and tried to pretend like a ploppy.

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Insuring good hands when close to index is acceptable.
    What is the rationale behind doing this with good hands? I thought insurance had nothing to do with your own hand? Or is this more of a heat issue?
    I will say that being the lone guy who hits his insurance with a large bet out sure makes you feel alone and the center of attention, especially if you have a junk 16 making the dealer and plops wonder why you would even "insure" a hand like that.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bec88 View Post
    "What is the rationale behind doing this with good hands?"
    The purpose is variance reduction, akin to Risk Reduction.

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by bec88 View Post
    especially if you have a junk 16 making the dealer and plops wonder why you would even "insure" a hand like that.
    There are a lot of comments you can make, not sure if they deflect any heat or not.

    "Its the only way I can push."
    "Every time I raise my bet the dealer has blackjack" (might be counter-productive lol) then apologize to the table for causing the blackjack by raising bet.
    "I don't want to play 16 against an ace, I hope you have it"

    They're all dumb, but it's better than sitting there looking guilty.

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    The purpose is variance reduction, akin to Risk Reduction.
    Ok can you explain it to me, im not too sure i understand how it reduces variance exactly. If the dealer doesnt flip a face you lost that money for insurance and then you can potentially lose the hand and even more if you double your 11 and lose. Sorry if this sounds like a newb question.

    EDIT: jumbled my words
    Last edited by bec88; 03-03-2016 at 02:02 PM.

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