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Thread: Show us the burn card!

  1. #1


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    Show us the burn card!

    Funny story -

    I was playing the 8-decker at my local store last week. Every now and then the pen gets crazy, like the dealer cutting off less than 1/2 deck. I'm camped out with a couple of ploppies as the dealer finishes the cut and begins the shoe. The ploppie to my left says: "Show us the burn card!" We all laugh, so I throw in the additional comment: "Yeah - now all we have to do is to count down the next 415 cards!"

    So we get to the end of the shoe to the point where you couldn't even see any cards left in the shoe and the discard tray is filled almost to the top. The count was sky high and I made about $2k in six hands, including some nice hits on the King's Bounty side bet.

    Yeah - only 415 more cards to count....

  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdaddy View Post
    Funny story -

    I was playing the 8-decker at my local store last week. Every now and then the pen gets crazy, like the dealer cutting off less than 1/2 deck. I'm camped out with a couple of ploppies as the dealer finishes the cut and begins the shoe. The ploppie to my left says: "Show us the burn card!" We all laugh, so I throw in the additional comment: "Yeah - now all we have to do is to count down the next 415 cards!"

    So we get to the end of the shoe to the point where you couldn't even see any cards left in the shoe and the discard tray is filled almost to the top. The count was sky high and I made about $2k in six hands, including some nice hits on the King's Bounty side bet.

    Yeah - only 415 more cards to count....
    I know a store where the burn card is considered as a courtesy to the player, and can be waived - in other words - no burn card. You'll never guess what my instructions were.

  3. #3


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    Frightman
    Here is my guess "I will tell you after I see it"
    In some places, when they change dealers they give the choice of the new dealer burning a card or not. In this situation the choice is easy, burn one in negative counts and vice versa.

  4. #4


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    Per my experience, the later time that I play, the deeper penetration I get, I mean after 12 midnight onward, I get better penetration
    Also female dealers tend to give deeper penetration for me!
    I wonder what your general observation would be?

  5. #5
    Senior Member MJGolf's Avatar
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    We have a local place here that burns 4 cards off the top in a double deck game. So you have to really pay attention to penetration. But I'm in the Munchkin fold on this one (as he stated in last podcast)........gender of dealers has NOTHING to do with winning or penetration. I have seen men dealers cut only a few cards off from the bottom, giving very good penetration. I have seen women dealers cut close to a full deck off for a double deck game............and then the following woman dealer cut off only about 1/3 a deck at the same table and game. It's DEALER specific.
    So I truthfully feel (and not remotely being politically correct here) that GENDER has NOTHING to do with penetration.



    (Unless you are talking about sex of course...........)
    "Women and cats will do as they please, and Men and dogs should just relax and get used to the idea" --- Robert A. Heinlein

  6. #6


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    When you are counting games where the penetrations is unusually high like this, you need to remember that sometimes, the cards as they are dealt from previous shows become slightly bent in various manors, it makes the discard pile "poof up" taller than it would be if brand new cards were placed in the discard rack. Often you will observe a discard rack with what appears to be 7.5 of 8 decks in the tray, though in reality it is only 6.5 decks of cards because they have "poofed up" and become taller. I call it the "poofage factor" but i have never seen anybody discuss this effect. It is most notable when the discard tray will be completely full, but there is still 1 whole deck left undealt, this makes it very easy to erroneously figure a TC for an index near the end of the shoe.

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by ACFERRET View Post
    When you are counting games where the penetrations is unusually high like this, you need to remember that sometimes, the cards as they are dealt from previous shows become slightly bent in various manors, it makes the discard pile "poof up" taller than it would be if brand new cards were placed in the discard rack. Often you will observe a discard rack with what appears to be 7.5 of 8 decks in the tray, though in reality it is only 6.5 decks of cards because they have "poofed up" and become taller. I call it the "poofage factor" but i have never seen anybody discuss this effect. It is most notable when the discard tray will be completely full, but there is still 1 whole deck left undealt, this makes it very easy to erroneously figure a TC for an index near the end of the shoe.
    While this is likely true, also you should also be aware that cards from different casinos (manufacturers) can and, often do, have different thickness that can effect your TC. Many times dramatically.

    I have often spoken of error rates playing and this could easily contribute to TC errors that are harmful to your game.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  8. #8


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Regarding the side topic: dealer gender and penetration, male dealers have been more protective of their table than female, in my experience, with zero female dealer moving the cut card on me. Gender discussion aside.

  9. #9


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    Generally speaking, gender is a non factor overall when it comes to penetration. What matters is dealer experience and to a certain extent age. Generally newer dealers give better penetration cause lots of training classes will teach a 1 deck cutoff. Even if the house policy is 1.5 or 2 or more, the generally cut thinner because their default is 1 and it's hard to determine what 1.5 is for them as they think it's just a few cards more than 1, so you'll prob get 1.2-1.3. Age kind of goes hand in hand with this one. Lots of older seasoned dealers wanna protect the house and are loyal to them, an "old school" mentality apparently. Younger ones may have just started and you're more likely to get a mixed bag- some will do you a favor,, especially if you're friendly and tip (especially the ones who don't care) since they're just doing this part time through college, but some just do what they're told.

    Another issue is game speed. Apparently among new dealers, there's an underlying competition between themselves for who can deal the fastest. As such, you're most likely to get a faster dealer when they're new and young. Older more experienced dealers don't care about this, most are jaded and are interested in dealing slower to produce less strain on their hands.

    These have been my observations, and are also based on first hand accounts from the pit and game trainers.
    Last edited by Masterhoudini; 02-07-2016 at 03:06 PM.

  10. #10


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    Ask a dealer (if you know one personally). He'll tell you what they see. They're not dumb. Table protection comes first but customer service is a close second. I am convinced female dealers put more emphasis on the second. Personal observation. YMMV

  11. #11


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    I kind of agree with databaseguy
    Once a pit boss came over to me in a low-end casino and told me I need one or two months of practice before I can do "it"!! I didn't acknowledge anything but he seemed a smart guy.
    Also another young male dealer jokingly told me I am professional while I was losing in a shoe without raising my bet at all!
    I have never heard such smart comments from female dealers so far
    But I remember one incident, there was this middle-age female dealer who was pretty fast and there were other players on the table. She was used to my minimum 10$ bets for an hour. In the last two rounds, she suddenly faced my big 150$ bets at the table, while she was calculating the correct payout for my blackjack , she gave me a suspicious look, she looked me as if I am a thief or rubber!
    I picked up my 600$+ win and left and never played when she was around

  12. #12


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    Had to jump in here... In my experience, youngish male dealers are more generous. I'm a woman, though, and the more ploppy they think I am the less protective of the house they get.

  13. #13


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    A lot of dealers are bored or disgruntled. When I pay attention to them and listen to what they want to talk about or complain about I find they are a little nicer. No mystery there. True some older dealers may be a "company man" but only if the company has treated them well. Some old timers don't give a shit and will do whatever they want. Asian dealers tend to follow the letter of the law and are less likely to deviate from their training in my experience.

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