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Thread: How CSM work inside ???

  1. #1


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    How CSM work inside ???

    Hello,

    I was trying to find more information about CSM, and I didn't find any useful . CSM is engineering equipment, so it have to work with some algorithm.
    I have found just one picture and video on the internet, how this machine look inside https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QHDgVWMdw4 Anyway my question is, has anybody find more information how is working this "beast"

    P.s sorry for my english

  2. #2


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    I suggest you perform a search for the terms "patent" and "shufflemaster". GIYF.
    "Your honor, with all due respect: if you're going to try my case for me, I wish you wouldn't lose it."

    Fictitious Boston Attorney Frank Galvin (Paul Newman - January 26, 1925 - September 26, 2008) in The Verdict, 1982, lambasting Trial Judge Hoyle (Milo Donal O'Shea - June 2, 1926 - April 2, 2013) - http://imdb.com/title/tt0084855/

  3. #3
    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    A suggestion would be to make friends with a trustworthy machine service tech. Possibly a nephew or uncle. Other than that, I'm out of tricks.

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    While I am all for doing your own research, I must say that I would be skeptical about being able to gleam any useful information from a CSM.

    Just like an ASM, from what I understand, the cards aren't perfectly controlled so that card #7 will always end up at #X position after a particular procedure. Rather, the whole process is mechanical, prone to deviation, that is similar to a hand shuffle but for a CSM it's happening quite frequently.

  5. #5


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    That is a good question, however I don't have the answer
    As far as I have seen in some local casinos, They feed 4 decks of cards to the machine, inside that, there is a wheel, more like a turbine, with almost 20 shelves, the cards are inserted randomly while the wheel is turning. then almost a deck of cards are pushed out.
    The machine malfunctions a lot and I have seen it changed quite few times in the middle of a game.
    Sometime machine does a good shuffle and you start to win at a slow rate just by using basic strategy and flat betting. but most of the time you will see many small cards coming out non-stop and then feed back into the machine quickly, and then you have more on the next round.
    I prefer to play a game with lousy penetration rather than play with this machine, it must be boycotted by everyone, not only card counters
    I have a theory that it is bad even for non-counters. because most of the time, during a shoe game, the odds will be somewhat balanced by the end of the shoe, meaning if someone has lost at the beginning of the shoe because of small cards, he will get some back with big cards left at the end and vice versa,
    A counter knows how to spot advantages, but this would be still a better option for non-counter to lower the house edge.

  6. #6


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    Is this machine in the USA?
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  7. #7
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    It's actually very slightly better for basic strategy players due to the lack of cut card effect.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    What is the most commonly used CSM brand used in US?

  9. #9
    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
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  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    It's actually very slightly better for basic strategy players due to the lack of cut card effect.
    The house edge is reduced by about 0.02% in a six deck game using a CSM. The main purpose of these machines is to speed up the game by eliminating shuffle breaks therefore exposing the players bankroll to more hands per hour. A secondary benefit is removing the threat from advantage players which is not really that great unless they are playing high stakes. The effect is the same as playing online using a Random Number Generator and some time ago Shufflemaster offered a $100,000 reward to anyone who could demonstrate an advantage over the game by using this device and to my knowledge it has never been collected. Mike Shackleford did an analysis of these machines that proved they were completely random.
    Casino Enemy No.1

  11. #11
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    They are not completely random.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    They are not completely random.
    Likewise for ASM's.

  13. #13


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    I suppose I should have said for practical purposes. There is a buffer so the cards that have just been dealt may not appear in the next round but if there is also some bias in the shuffle then there is the possibility it could be tracked. The early mechanical shufflers may have been vulnerable but the modern Shufflemaster 126 is computer controlled so I would have thought this problem was eliminated. With ASM's, especially at Poker tables, sometimes it appears there has been no shuffling at all or not enough time is allowed between each game for a decent shuffle to be completed. In any case, I am no expert on these machines so if you would like to enlighten me then I am listening...
    Casino Enemy No.1

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