Which game would you choose?

**CallSaul** · 01-15-2016, 12:22 PM

I recently happened upon a casino that had the following BJ games on its main floor (note that this is completely different from what CBJN says about this joint):

One single deck game, 3:2 for a natural, S17, D10, NDAS, no resplitting, rule of 5 (if three players, only deal two rounds; if two players, deal three rounds; not sure about heads-up because there were always at least two people on that table when I observed). Limits: $25-500.
One double deck game, 3:2 for a natural, S17, DOA, NDAS. Pen was almost exactly one full deck. Limits: $25-500.
Several six deck games, 3:2 for a natural, S17, DOA, DAS, RSA. Pen was good - typically cut off one deck. Limits $10-1000, $15-1000, and $25-1500.

For a low-limit recreational player like myself, the six deck games were more appealing. What do you think? Would any of you play the SD and DD games with lousy pen over the 6D games with very good rules and pen? (assuming no other AP opportunities such as hole carding or shuffle tracking)

**stopgambling** · 01-15-2016, 01:13 PM

i would want this info to be remove if i were you . why woiuld you think cbjn 's info is different? for small bank 6d is a good choice, 2d sounds ok,but depends on your spread that is tolerate by the casino. i don't anything about the SD game ,If you use a complex count ,that would make a a good choice probably. ANYONE can follow cbjn and figure out where these games are. You are only hurting yourself. you should get software and read more books than ask for info like that.

**Freightman** · 01-15-2016, 01:19 PM

Granted, my game is heavily slanted towards shoe games. This isn't a contest, and haven't bothered to sim this. For several reasons, go with the shoe game. Better rules and deep pen allow for the quality game you should be aiming for. You can play a far bigger spread with less heat. Assuming a heads up, or lowly populated table, shoes allow for greater artistry vs the pitch games, which require virtual immediate ramping which exposes your spread - and you. If this game has surrender, it would be a dream.

**Freightman** · 01-15-2016, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by stopgambling

i would want this info to be remove if i were you . why woiuld you think cbjn 's info is different? for small bank 6d is a good choice, 2d sounds ok,but depends on your spread that is tolerate by the casino. i don't anything about the SD game ,If you use a complex count ,that would make a a good choice probably. ANYONE can follow cbjn and figure out where these games are. You are only hurting yourself. you should get software and read more books than ask for info like that.

CBJN is often inaccurate for various reasons. It is simply a snapshot in time, and again, for various reasons, that snapshot is not necessarily accurate. It is totally inaccurate for what's on there for my neck of the woods, and I have found dream games in Vegas that aren't even mentioned.

Should point out that I have not seen a really current issue of CBJN for my neck if the woods in some time, and my comments are based on general recollection of really bad reporting.

**KronikBuddha** · 01-15-2016, 01:23 PM

Use cvcx and cvdata to sim these conditions for your bankroll and risk tolerance and you will find the best game for your play. Personally I would choose the six deck game. It offers the best game and will also have the least amount of heat. Play two hands always and spread at least 1 - 10. Wong out of negative counts. The double deck game is playable, but that single deck game sucks with the penetration. I won't play single deck games offering less than rule of 6 and 3 or fewer total spots being played.

And CBJN is really bad on actual conditions. My local casinos cut off between 1/2 a deck at one place to right around 1 deck at another and CBJN says they both cut off two decks. And CBJN doesn't even mention the great single deck game that one casino offers on the weekend. I mainly use CBJN to determine whether or not a casino offers blackjack at all. Beyond that I will do my own scouting of the actual playing conditions.

**CallSaul** · 01-15-2016, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Freightman

Granted, my game is heavily slanted towards shoe games. This isn't a contest, and haven't bothered to sim this. For several reasons, go with the shoe game. Better rules and deep pen allow for the quality game you should be aiming for. You can play a far bigger spread with less heat. Assuming a heads up, or lowly populated table, shoes allow for greater artistry vs the pitch games, which require virtual immediate ramping which exposes your spread - and you. If this game has surrender, it would be a dream.

Yeah, that was my reasoning. Perhaps the SD game would be profitable for someone who uses a more complex count that has a higher PE, but for a recreational high-low player like myself, the 6D game was a no-brainer for me.

And I agree it would be a dream game if surrender was offered. Alas, it isn't.

**Freightman** · 01-15-2016, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by CallSaul

Yeah, that was my reasoning. Perhaps the SD game would be profitable for someone who uses a more complex count that has a higher PE, but for a recreational high-low player like myself, the 6D game was a no-brainer for me.

And I agree it would be a dream game if surrender was offered. Alas, it isn't.

Even a higher PE count system isn't going to do you much good with 2 rounds. The 6d game, even without surrender, but with S17, still looks pretty inviting.

**Jabberwocky** · 01-15-2016, 03:54 PM

I've got a local store offering 6 deck, LS, H17, 75%. I am always careful not to overplay it because it is mildly sweaty.

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 01-15-2016, 05:16 PM

CallSaul,

I recently happened upon a casino that had the following BJ games on its main floor (note that this is completely different from what CBJN says about this joint):

One single deck game, 3:2 for a natural, S17, D10, NDAS, no resplitting, rule of 5 (if three players, only deal two rounds; if two players, deal three rounds; not sure about heads-up because there were always at least two people on that table when I observed). Limits: $25-500.
One double deck game, 3:2 for a natural, S17, DOA, NDAS. Pen was almost exactly one full deck. Limits: $25-500.
Several six deck games, 3:2 for a natural, S17, DOA, DAS, RSA. Pen was good - typically cut off one deck. Limits $10-1000, $15-1000, and $25-1500.

For a low-limit recreational player like myself, the six deck games were more appealing. What do you think? Would any of you play the SD and DD games with lousy pen over the 6D games with very good rules and pen? (assuming no other AP opportunities such as hole carding or shuffle tracking)

Me, myself, and I would not hesitate to take
a seat at an uncrowded 6 deck shoe game.

**marriedputter** · 01-15-2016, 05:22 PM

It's no contest. Take the 6D.

If you don't have it, you should get Blackjack Attack, 3rd Edition. You would not need to even ask the question after reading that book.

**Stealth** · 01-15-2016, 08:53 PM

Clearly the six deck game is best. As stated before, add surrender and it really is a great game.

**stopgambling** · 01-15-2016, 09:37 PM

I will say it straight up ,CBJN is often inaccurate because people want to protect their own games(IMO). Why would i want someone come to my local games that i can milk for quite sometime and destroy it for some quick EV.

**Freightman** · 01-15-2016, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by stopgambling

I will say it straight up ,CBJN is often inaccurate because people want to protect their own games(IMO). Why would i want someone come to my local games that i can milk for quite sometime and destroy it for some quick EV.

In other words, the snapshot taken at the point in time it is taken, is not necessarily accurate - and one of the reasons is as stated above. I agree that there is a certain amount of this going on. I'm certain the publishers are aware of this issue, and I would hope they have a handle on how to minimize this.

There are other reasons to utilize CBJN - but that's something else.