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Thread: Reasonable max bet?

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    Reasonable max bet?

    Looking for a good threshold to go by in general that most stores tolerate. Im thinking 2x50-2x300 with an aggressive wong in style should be within most casino tolerance levels, correct? Some might say it's around 2x250. What max bet would you consider to preserve longevity? Im more in to last as long as possible rather than get rich quick.

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    Varies wildly
    .

    I bet up to 1/2 Table Max in tolerant stores.

    Bet up to 1/4 Max at typical stores, and ...

    staying under 1/5 Table Max in paranoid stores.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    Varies wildly.
    Agreed.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    I bet up to 1/2 Table Max in tolerant stores.
    This is for aggregate bet so 2x1/4 table max.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    staying under 1/5 Table Max in paranoid stores.
    And short sessions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeamMoney View Post
    Looking for a good threshold to go by in general that most stores tolerate. Im thinking 2x50-2x300 with an aggressive wong in style should be within most casino tolerance levels, correct? Some might say it's around 2x250. What max bet would you consider to preserve longevity? Im more in to last as long as possible rather than get rich quick.
    get rich quick???....seriously...that 1-6 spread is not scaring anyone...and there are no 'in general' tolerances....varies widely everywhere you go

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
    get rich quick???....seriously...that 1-6 spread is not scaring anyone...and there are no 'in general' tolerances....varies widely everywhere you go
    OP said he only plays by Wong-in. That 1-6 spread is actually 1-18 or 1-24 spread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeamMoney View Post
    Looking for a good threshold to go by in general that most stores tolerate. Im thinking 2x50-2x300 with an aggressive wong in style should be within most casino tolerance levels, correct? Some might say it's around 2x250. What max bet would you consider to preserve longevity? Im more in to last as long as possible rather than get rich quick.
    ZMF gives good advice relative to table limits.

    You need to provide much more data to get any useful answers. What is an aggressive wong in style?

    This is a much more complex question than implied and the most appropriate answer is "It depends!". FYI, 2X300 on double deck with shorten your longevity rather than preserve it.

    I have found that entering shoes at TC+2 and flat betting with 2 hands, removed the heat from being identified as a card counter. Then the surveillance (heat) issue becomes being identified as a team player, assuming we were using back counters or spotters. This type of strategy dictates a bankroll that is sufficient to handle the variance and designed to be effective with this protocol.

    The dollar range of tolerance is a casino specific amount that varies both by casino and area and in many cases, by game. Las Vegas strip tolerance is much higher than local Vegas casinos in the surrounding area. Proper conclusions can be made by scouting, planning and with some experience. So Cal has lots of games with $300 max bet. Many casinos now employ no-mid shoe entry, so how does aggressive wong in work there?

    So, bank size, casino location, game, casino, play style are all topics of consideration.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

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    I got torched from a strong DD game by playing 2x1 off the top and dropping to one hole @ > +3 and a max bet of 70% of table max but wonging out @ all -4 counts. Did I rat hole? What do u think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    "Did I rat hole? What do u think?"
    I M O "rat holing" is a truly poor idea -- for the reasons that I am tired of reiterating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    I M O "rat holing" is a truly poor idea -- for the reasons that I am tired of reiterating.
    I think it depends on your levels. If you're playing with mainly black chips, it's worthless as they try to track those very consistently. Still think you could do it though, as it's "normal" for ploppies to want to leave with something in their pockets. Maybe they'll forget to mark a couple and it'll work.

    If you're a lower level counter I think there are a lot of strong benefits. When I was mostly a reds/greens player I had 2 casinos post me up with yearly losses even though I'd won on the year at BOTH. So many sessions I'd be up a few hundo in my pocket and down a hundo on the table. They don't track green chips very well =).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romes View Post
    If you're a lower level counter I think there are a lot of strong benefits. When I was mostly a reds/greens player I had 2 casinos post me up with yearly losses even though I'd won on the year at BOTH. So many sessions I'd be up a few hundo in my pocket and down a hundo on the table. They don't track green chips very well =).
    I don't rathole but had the casinos log me for 33% of my actual win. I always color up in even $100 increments. The pit doesn't care about the remaining fraction. Their job is not to track your win total but just the ebb and flow of the black and above. I use a couple of other tricks that I will not go into in the open forum. At one place I was worried about getting a lifetime win back just for this years take. Then I looked at the win/loss summary for me and wasn't worried anymore. If you get labelled a ratholer you will always be credited with any unaccounted for chips from any Floor that has read it in your profile. After approximately 500 color ups in a year and figuring an average of $50 per color up that's $25K a year without Ratholing. If I have a bias towards being on the high end that is almost doubled. If I have an extra hundred in my hand on occasion well you get the idea. Add a couple of other techniques that don't involve ratholing and well you get the idea.
    Last edited by Three; 01-13-2016 at 09:55 AM.

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    [QUOTE=moses;181367]
    Quote Originally Posted by Romes View Post
    it's "normal" for ploppies to want to leave with something in their pockets. QUOTE]
    Ploppies leave with something in their pockets? I mean other than their hands.
    seen lots of them walk away winners. In fact, many an AP became one after he walked into a casino as a ploppy, won and then went home and started studying BJ.

    the other day, a ploppy with a girlfriend sat down at my DD game, cashed in for $100, was given 4 greens, exchanged one for red chips and put out one red chip. The dealer politely pointed out that it's a $25 min game, suggested a $5 table. The ploppy, somewhat embarrasses, plunked out a green chip rather than walk away and get embarrassed. First hand, he picks up, the three of us already playing all stuck our cards under because of the bust card on display, so the ploppy stuck his 4,4, under as well. Dealer busted and he won the green chip. Next hand, the dealer had an up card of 5, guy at first base put his 9,2 face up and doubled so the ploppy, at first looking puzzled, threw his 10,3 and tried to double. The dealer pointed out that he can only double 9-11 so he tucked his cards like me and third base. Dealer busts and he wins. He puts his original $100 in his pocket, places the $50 he had won and gets a BJ. He picks up his total winnings of $125 after just 3 rounds, throws his arms around his impressed girl friend and heads off.

    Shit happens. I lost after sitting there for 2 hours and a ploppy doubles his money in 5 minutes!!'

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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    ...Then there is the guy that walks up buys in for $500. Wins 7 out of 10 hands, tips the dealer a green chip on every win, and walks away broke screaming "this casino is screwing me." Seen it happen many times.
    Then, the ploppy sat down next to me at a $25 table - buys in for $200. Within 30 minutes, he's at 3x500. Walks out after an hour with 14k. It really was pretty funny.

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    I started playing a delicious DD game at $50 minimum.
    The minimums kept rising, but I am grandfathered in.
    It eventually reaches $500 minimums. At the point where
    the table is at $200 minimums, A Japanese family of 3
    takes seats.

    They sign for three (3) markers - each for $200,000

    They raise the table minimums to $500.

    Papa-San flat-bets the minimum and plays poorly. Hey is grumpy.
    Mama-San has a Basic Strategy chart printed in Japanese. It is the
    wrong one for a S17 DD game. She is grimly robotic as she plays.
    Daughter-San is happily playing hunches, betting up after losses.
    Papa-San playing his guesses is breaking even, whining throughout.

    When the smoke clears, I have won a little less than $1,000;
    while the Japanese tourist family dropped close to $2,000,000.
    I know this because they took about TEN $200,000 markers.

    Of course, the table is closely watched, so I am restricting my
    spread to 3-1, but with ACCURATE play, that is sufficient.
    Last edited by ZenMaster_Flash; 01-13-2016 at 11:06 AM.

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