What should you do when you get shuffled up on

**Banjoclan** · 11-26-2015, 10:08 PM

Hi,

I played today at a very small off strip LV Casino for a little less than an hour (playing 2 hands 1-6 spread but did go a bit beyond once) and was having very good luck.

Towards the end of the session I was going to leave, but the other fellow who was there said something to the effect that I should stay because we were winning. I said, "OK, I'll play a few more and see how my luck runs." The count got high (2D H17 DS) and I won some more. About 3/4 deck in, the floor person(apologize if I don't have the correct title) told the dealer to shuffle.

I left my max bet out for a bit while the dealer shuffled, but then I kind of shrugged and said, "I really need to get going." As I brought my chips in I stopped and was trying to make it look like I really wanted to play, so I said, "what the heck, one more hand" and put out a 2 unit bet on two hands. The dealer got a BJ so I thought this was a good excuse to get out. When I left, the other fellow in the pit asked if I wanted a players card and I declined saying, "my wife only wants to stay on the strip."

So, did I handle this poorly? Thanks much and hope you all had a happy Thanksgiving.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Three** · 11-26-2015, 10:30 PM

When the shuffle up happens there are 2 possibilities. You know they are suspicious a counter is at the table. It is either a test to see what you will do. If you leave they know you are a counter. In this situation you want to play for a while and without looking too much like you are purposely changing your game don't play as smart especially with your bet moves. If you were smart already your bet moves have a number of explanations besides the count. Make bets that continue to back up another explanation while not following the count. All you are really trying to do is show them you don't care that they shuffled up because you aren't a counter. You might take a bathroom break and ask them to hammer your spot(s) and come back midshoe and play like you have been for a while and then leave. You can do just about anything as long as you don't leave right away and you do things that look less like you are counting.

The other possibility is they don't want to go to the trouble of backing you off but want you to leave. You don't want to stay long enough for them to back you off but again you might not want to leave directly. This depends on what your gut tells you. Sometimes, usually at sweatier joints, the best action is to leave ASAP. Other times you want to leave but but can take a little time to make it look like you left for another reason. After a while you get the feel for making the right move.

**BJGenius007** · 11-27-2015, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by moses

You handled it fine. I would've pulled my big bet at the end of the deck back immediately. The longer you leave it out the more time it allows EITS to see it and you remove same. I would've bet the minimum on the first hand of the next deck. And been curious to see where that deck went. Did they shuffle early again if positive? or prolong the deck if negative? or proceed normal? This are very important decisions I make as to whether I want to play that place, pit, or dealer in the future.

It sounds to me like the other person was telling you to stay was a way of saying the deck is positive. This could be a factor of what prompted the pit to suggest shuffle. My response to the pit would simply have been "no thanks." Hopefully, this subliminal message would've been "you just shuffled away a positive deck and now want something from me?" No way, you F***er!

This is a story I always want to tell and I can still remember the smiling face of the dealer. I was playing a 8D shoe game with the three other players. Dealers kept making her hand because small cards kept coming out. So the first one dropped out. Then the second one out, too. In the middle of the shoe, the third player said he couldn't take it any more. I was so happy that TC sat at +5 and I was alone with four decks left. Then suddenly the dealer took the remaining cards out and said, "Let me take the bad shoe out and give you a good fresh one."

A similar story happening in another time but the same casino is that the dealer said in the middle of the shoe, let's vote if we end the bad shoe early and have a fresh one. The TC was very positive so I said, "It is a pretty good shoe, I won more than I lost." It really was a OK shoe for some other players but they took dealer's suggestion and outvoted me to start a new shoe.

**WABJ11** · 11-28-2015, 01:21 AM

If he's playing anon, which it sounds like he was since he refused a card, and he plans on coming back, I would just get out of dodge and come back on another shift. If they are shuffling up on you they know what you're up to so why waste any further money. The other ploppy at the table didn't complain when they shuffled up?

**Banjoclan** · 11-28-2015, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by WABJ11

If he's playing anon, which it sounds like he was since he refused a card, and he plans on coming back, I would just get out of dodge and come back on another shift. If they are shuffling up on you they know what you're up to so why waste any further money. The other ploppy at the table didn't complain when they shuffled up?

No, the ploppy didn't care when they shuffled up. If I come back on another shift, would I have any problems just going to the cage and cashing out? It wasn't huge but I think it was big for this place.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Banjoclan** · 11-28-2015, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by moses

.

It sounds to me like the other person was telling you to stay was a way of saying the deck is positive. This could be a factor of what prompted the pit to suggest shuffle. My response to the pit would simply have been "no thanks." Hopefully, this subliminal message would've been "you just shuffled away a positive deck and now want something from me?" No way, you F***er!

To clarify, when the ploppy said that, it was during the shuffle after a good shoe where we were both winning. They shuffled up midway through the next deck when I started to spread.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**stopgambling** · 11-28-2015, 06:13 PM

i am getting bad cut lately from known "bad' dealers . i swear thye give better cut to the big ploppy until i sat down and play a few shoes then they just go back being "normal" again ,which is SHXTTY! I definitely find that they made this personal . Would anybody think of me as a bad person of getting back at them through complains .

**Freightman** · 11-28-2015, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by stopgambling

i am getting bad cut lately from known "bad' dealers . i swear thye give better cut to the big ploppy until i sat down and play a few shoes then they just go back being "normal" again ,which is SHXTTY! I definitely find that they made this personal . Would anybody think of me as a bad person of getting back at them through complains .

Reduce tokes to 0, let critters know why subtly, out of earshot. Reward those dealers who you like.

**BJGenius007** · 11-28-2015, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Freightman

Reduce tokes to 0, let critters know why subtly, out of earshot. Reward those dealers who you like.

It is most likely that StopGambling never toked, so the dealers let him know why not so subtly.

**stopgambling** · 11-28-2015, 07:15 PM

why would you think that mr. Bj genius? i already know the real reason ,but i will not tell it here.

**stopgambling** · 11-28-2015, 07:19 PM

I find it useless since they share tip . i always like how the team operate , almost zero tokes as they could drastically cut into win rate. over 95% of the time toke amount to "nothing". Where tokes does make a difference i do toke alright Imo , but of course it is never enough in the dealer's point of view.

**Banjoclan** · 11-29-2015, 02:38 PM

Thanks for the feedback everybody. At another off strip place I did quite well and colored up after playing only 20 minutes or so. When I went to the cage he asked for my name and I said he didn't need my name. He said he needed to so they could keep track of the chips. I took my chips and left. If I go back on a different shift what's the best way to cash out? What if they want my name again? Thanks

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Cougfan** · 11-30-2015, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Banjoclan

Thanks for the feedback everybody. At another off strip place I did quite well and colored up after playing only 20 minutes or so. When I went to the cage he asked for my name and I said he didn't need my name. He said he needed to so they could keep track of the chips. I took my chips and left. If I go back on a different shift what's the best way to cash out? What if they want my name again? Thanks

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are lucky he didn't grab your chips.

If you don't have any high denomination chips, you should be fine cashing it out in smaller chunks. But if he said that they needed to track the chips, you could be in for trouble. I once played at a place that is named after a tree and made the mistake of leaving with a $5K chip after an anonymous session. I came back later on a different shift and they gave me an extremely hard time. Lesson learned. Now I am reluctant to even take $500 chips unless I know for sure that I can cash them anonymously with no issues. And I flat refuse to take any $1,000 or higher denomination chips off the table. Just smile and say "no thanks" as you are walking to the door.

In Vegas, it varies significantly. There is a single letter place south of town that looks like it should take big action but gives significant grief over even one $500 chip. There is also a downtown place whose name is in Spanish where they don't really have anything larger than $100 chips, but they will cash $4,000+ without too much of a hassle for ID.