The reality of H17

[Boardwalker]

Thanks, Tthree!

[jaygruden]

BW, Yes...as of last week they had them, but you won't be happy about pen with most dealers.

[First Normal Form]

KJ's points were excellent. My friends may not know H17 8-deck vs. S17 double deck, but they do get tired of getting shellacked (subject to variance . And then they're lost to the casinos for a long time.

I was surprised by Aslan's testimonial to the shortsighted nature of his profession. I always assumed it was a stereotype. Yikes. It reminds me of a conversation I once had with my brother, a corporate lawyer. "This movie's portrayal of "evil" lawyers is ridiculously over the top, and made it much harder for me to enjoy it, having to endure those tiresome caricatures!". He responded, that in his experience, many, many lawyers are truly reprehensible, and proceeded to tell me some horror stories that kept me awake at night. Yikes.

Hilton is 6 deck(pen to 1.8 decks). Resorts(pen to 1.5 decks) and Trump Plaza(pen to 2 decks) has 8 deck, $10, S17 listed in CBJN.

2012 Atlantic City Counter Convention!

Just kidding.

[shadroch]

Good Gawd. A person with a $500 bankroll flat betting $10 an hour at a semi-full H17 table will lose how much more in four hours than if he was playing at a S17 table? Does the difference add up to a single bet over four hours?
You want to know whats really insidious and has to have a negative effect? Resort fees. How do you suppose Mr and Ms Ploppie feel when MGM hits them up for an additional $17 a night above their quoted room rate.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Flat betting $10 an hr. for four hrs. will cost (approx.) an additional $8.

[Koz84]

I think there has been some solid analysis between H17 and S17. We could sit and argue for hours, kicking up a fuss about how we want the good ol' days to reappear, but the reality is, it most likely won't. As pointed out, if faced with only H17 games, as I am, then search for that exceptional penetration. I know someone who routinely tells dealers "cut thin to win" when he plays the 8 deck H17 games we are faced with. Sometimes this lands him 7.5/8 decks dealt, when the norm is usually 6.5/8 at this particular store. Would you play a 6/8 or 6.5/8 dealt S17 game or H17 game dealt to the last half deck, all other factors equal? Considering the effect of the H17 rule decreases as TC increases, I know which I would take! Fortunately for people like us, we can appreciate these BJ nuances and actively search for conditions/dealers that will help us in the long run. But as others have stated, some ploppies just don't understand, no matter how hard you try. I once saw a woman playing 2x hands of $50 ($100 total) on a $15 BJ table that offered a 6 deck CSM, 6:5, H17. About a 30sec walk down from this pit was a 6 deck CSM game with 3:2 and H17. Another short walk and she had a shoe game with those rules. What was even more appalling was that her tier level of membership allowed her to access the VIP area with $100 minimum games offering S17 and 3:2. I think education is key, as they say, knowledge is power. If people knew how bad the games they were playing really were, they would leave in their droves.

[shadroch]

Flat betting $10 an hr. for four hrs. will cost (approx.) an additional $8.

Thank you.
So do people seriously believe that losing $2 an hour is going to send newbies scattering from the casino never to return? These folks don't mind paying $800 for bottle service in a club, or resort fees but screw them out of $2 and all you'll see is their backs as they flee?

[21forme]

Thank you.
So do people seriously believe that losing $2 an hour is going to send newbies scattering from the casino never to return? These folks don't mind paying $800 for bottle service in a club, or resort fees but screw them out of $2 and all you'll see is their backs as they flee?

It's not $2/hr. It's the increased variance and more rapid loss of BR.

[shadroch]

It's not $2/hr. It's the increased variance and more rapid loss of BR.

It really isn't. A/6 as a hand does not come up all that often. Last month, in Providence, I was playing a BJ machine well over an hour before such a hand occurred. What surprised me was the virtual dealer stayed on it even though the machine said he hit soft 17. They must have changed the rules but not updated the stickers. Rules like this hurt in the long run, a phrase ploppies don't bother with. In the short run, it isn't even a pinprick.
There are many more "evils" that deserve your attention. I don't understand why everyone is harping on this.

[21gunsalute]

It really isn't. A/6 as a hand does not come up all that often. Last month, in Providence, I was playing a BJ machine well over an hour before such a hand occurred. What surprised me was the virtual dealer stayed on it even though the machine said he hit soft 17. They must have changed the rules but not updated the stickers. Rules like this hurt in the long run, a phrase ploppies don't bother with. In the short run, it isn't even a pinprick.
There are many more "evils" that deserve your attention. I don't understand why everyone is harping on this.

Amen brother!

[paymypush]

Not to nit pick but that is an "additional $8 an hour" not $2. But your point is a good point. As we know the real perception is the N0 for the casino against the ploppy. Think reverse AP logic. Negative EV and variance. How long until you pass the N0 for being behind by you session BR with S17 versus H17. That is what the ploppies notice.

At a house edge of .22% wouldn't that be $2 an hour?

[ZenMaster_Flash]

" ... That is what the ploppies notice."

Ploppies notice something ? I beg to differ !

[AussiePlayer]

" ... That is what the ploppies notice."

Ploppies notice something ? I beg to differ !

No, I once remember playing a S17 game and ploppy used to H17 was furious that the dealer stood on A6. He actually stood up, left the table and refused to play any more BJ in that store. Funny thing was, he'd just finished telling everyone all about his 'professional blackjack career.'