16 vs. 10

[FerrisB]

Howdy, howdy.

I play hi opt II. Prefer a DD game. I also use the illustrious 18. From what I know, you stand at a TC +1 when you hold 16 and the dealer is showing a 10.

Here is my question, if this is the last hand and the dealer is going to shuffle once the table plays, do you still stand on 16? Let's say the count is +2, you and two others at the table. The two players before you both hit and each received a 10 valued card. Count is +2 and it's your turn. Follow the math and stand?

Thanks,
FerrisB

[ZenKinG]

Well the general rule for 16v10 is use the running count to make your decision. If RC is greater than 0 you stand. This is as close to a 50/50 play as it gets anyway, so you shouldnt stress it. Of course if surrender is allowed, you should always surrender 16v10. Semyon Dukach of the MIT blackjack team actually advises to play the hand based on if there are any 5s seen in that round. If there are no 5s in that current round, you should hit.

[DSchles]

"Here is my question, if this is the last hand and the dealer is going to shuffle once the table plays, do you still stand on 16?"

Can you explain why this being the last hand has anything to do with your index decision?

"Let's say the count is +2, you and two others at the table. The two players before you both hit and each received a 10 valued card. Count is +2

Why is the count (RC?) still +2? Did you mean to write RC now equals 0, instead?

"and it's your turn. Follow the math and stand?"

If your index for standing is TC = +1, and the TC is still +2 (although I don't know why it would be), you stand. If it's zero, you hit. The fact that it is the last hand is irrelevant. But the fact that the TC has changed by the time you play your hand, and that you should play according to all the information you have at the moment you make the play, is, in fact, very relevant.

Maybe I've answered the question you meant to ask!

Don

[ZenMaster_Flash]

The O.P. is hoping to prevent an imminent shuffle by "saving" a card.

What I want to add to this discussion, is that if you want to buy a little

cover - on the cheap - STAND on all 16's. This will only cost you a slight

amount on your minimum bets as those are the only times it is "wrong" to

stand.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

FerrisB,

Where are you getting a Hi-Opt II index of +1 and not 0 for 16 vs. 10 ?

By the way the original Hi-Opt II indices, done by Julian Braun, the originator

of Hi-Opt II for a Single Deck was -0.3

Naturally, nearly everyone uses 0

[DSchles]

"The O.P. is hoping to prevent an imminent shuffle by "saving" a card."

No, sorry. Read it very carefully. That's NOT the way it reads, at least to me.

Don

[ZenMaster_Flash]

L.O.L.

My mind running a bit too quickly today.
I prematurely stopped reading when it appeared
that he was going to ask the logical question.

[Freightman]

L.O.L.

My mind running a bit too quickly today.
I prematurely stopped reading when it appeared
that he was going to ask the logical question.

I trust you're not premature with all of your endeavours

[ZenMaster_Flash]

My retiring from the work-a-day 9 to 5 world, civilians thought was premature;
as for some of my marriages, my first was too young, the second was too quick,
but the third was "just right". The third in my trilogy I still have not worn out !

[BJGenius007]

The O.P. is hoping to prevent an imminent shuffle by "saving" a card.

What I want to add to this discussion, is that if you want to buy a little

cover - on the cheap - STAND on all 16's. This will only cost you a slight

amount on your minimum bets as those are the only times it is "wrong" to

stand.

STAND on all 16's is the worst advice for people to play Blackjack.

If I were to write a BJ book, the most important lesson for a counter is to hit 16 against 10, if he doesn't know the TC or just lose the count. The index play for Hi-Lo on 16 v 10 is somewhere between 0.7 and 0.8. If someone uses Hi-Lo, he wants to hit if TC is less than or equal to 0.7, and he wants to stand if TC is more than or equal to 0.8. The chance to hit is greater since he wants to do so if TC is negative, 0, 0.1, 0.2, up to 0.7.

Look at this topic in another way, the index play for 16 v 10 is 0 in most books. And TC is floored. So when TC is 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, up to 0.9, they are all round down to 0. It is not too bad since you are only wrong when TC is 0.8 or 0.9. In either case, TC is actually too high to hit.

Back to your topic, if you interpret the index play as "to stand in all 16 v 10" because it is better than "to hit in all 16 v 10", you are terribly wrong. Sixteen v ten happens so often, AP taking such an action will perform worse than ploppies following the book "always hit 16 against 7-10".

[Norm]

You're going to lose. Flip a coin.

[Freightman]

My retiring from the work-a-day 9 to 5 world, civilians thought was premature;
as for some of my marriages, my first was too young, the second was too quick,
but the third was "just right". The third in my trilogy I still have not worn out !

Regarding the trilogy., mazel tov

[bigplayer]

If the count is positive why would anyone hit regardless of what round it is? Be careful in trying to preserve a round. Often the cost of standing on a play when you should hit is far higher than the blind advantage you'd have on that extra round. If you're giving up 15% to stand in a certain situation to preserve an extra round with a relatively large 3% advantage you're making a big blunder.