Tipping Psychology vs EV

[20 to 1 Spread]

Hey guys, another question at yall. So while I tip an average of $10 per session, my tip rate is quite low at 25-30% (ex: if I win like $150, I won't tip), but over my life time record that has been tracked, I tip at a rate of $1/hour. Which I think is not okay considering the fact that a safe EV with low RoR puts me around $35/hr. When I feel a little frisky and believe the pit boss for that shift is lax, then I'll probably average a $50/hr. I think $1/hr tip at $35/hr is too much. what do you think?

Scenario that happened today at my session: TC finally starting getting hot, for the past 30-40 minutes I've been min betting $10. Now I ramp, lose, ramp, lose, ramp, lose. A cycle of pulling money out, eventually leading my $10 bet to 2 x $400. I get an okay hand and 8s VS 3, so I split and get another split. Hand holds up, deck runs cold after the next hand which I lose by splitting aces against a 10 and I decide to cash out. If my typical average EV is $35/hr, how much would you tip here. Instead of being down $1500, I came up like $800-900. I was also blasting it at near table max, so being stingy and tipping $5 seems like suicide in the eyes of the pit boss.

I threw a green chip at them and left. Obviously $5 here is far too little and this is my reg spot, so I do want to tip for the sake of cover (they realize Im up to something by this point). So should it be $10? $15? $20? Are these numbers too much considering my hourly? I certainly believe $25 is too much. Remember I only tip 25% of my sessions after showing my max bets, otherwise I don't tip at all, thus my average tip $1/hr. What would you do here? Are these number sound? Is it still too much?

Tip 5 red or 1 green?

[mushin]

Change the way you tip and you have a good solution.

Play the tip for the dealer either on top of your stack so that you can keep control of the chip and decide if you want to press it again. Or play it on the edge for the dealer to take if you win. By doing this at opportune times when the deck is hot you can make more money for the dealer. Imagine if you took a $5.00 chip and bet if for the dealer then had to split and double for a total of 4 bets. You now have 20 on the table for the dealer. You win the hands and the dealer is getting $40... where the other way at the end you tipped $25.00 straight up.

Again using the above example you can also choose to just take the original $20 that you placed on top of the stacks and give that to the dealer and keep the remaining $20 from the win to be able to tip with no cost out of your pocket.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Mushin's post contains good advice.

I generally toke small but often,

creating a memorable pattern.

You stated, "I think $1/hr tip at $35/hr is too much."

Giving the dealers less than 0.3% of your e.v. Makes you a skinflint.

You asked: "Tip 5 red or 1 green?"

The 5 reds Chips will will be banged on the toke box before being dropped.

5 reds will first be converted to a green chip, and that is a GOOD thing

as it takes longer, is more noticeable, and thus, more memorable.

[Dog Hand]

20 to 1 Spread,

Although exceptions to the rule do exist, dealers are generally content with a tip of 20-30% of your "color-up", along with a bet "for the boys" of one chip color below what you're betting per round: thus, if you're betting green, that's a red; if you're betting black, that's a green, etc.

Example: you buy in for $500 and flat-bet 1 green (plus a red "for the boys") per round. After 100 rounds, you color up your remaining 8 greens, and toss the dealer another $50 (25% of your $200 "color-up"): note that the "color-up" tip is NOT dependent on whether you yourself won or lost (that's immaterial to the dealer), but rather on the amount that you "color-up" at the end. Thus, your total tip is $550 on $2,500 of action (actually $3,000 of action, if you count the bets "for the boys").

This tipping level will usually (but not always: some people are greedy) keep you in the good graces of the dealer and the pit.

Now don't forget about the cashier! You have to give something to "the babes with the bucks" as you cash out your remaining $150: $20 (a nice Jackson, a.k.a. a "double sawbuck") should be adequate to ensure they never short-change you. Now your tipping has reached $570.

However, these tips will have NO effect on the EITS, since they don't share in the dealers' and cashiers' tips, so you should be sure to stop by the surveillance room (you'll have to get directions from a guard, so keep $10 ready "for the guys with guns"), then "slip 'em a Benjy" to keep "the crew with the cameras" happy as well, thereby increasing your tipping amount to $680.

This will leave you with $20, so you can give $10 to "the team with the towels" (that is, the restroom attendant: if you can't find him (or her), just leave a Hamilton on the bathroom sink), and your final $10 can go to the valet for not actually wrecking your car. If you didn't arrive by car, give the valet $10 anyway for "the car jockeys."

Thus, to recap, you bought in for $500, gave $700 in tips, and left with... nothing. Keep doing this and you'll be golden at that casino forever.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

[RS]

Your max bet is 2x$400 and your EV is $35/hour? Find a better game.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Dog Hand's Tipping Guidelines to Ensure Longevity

R O T F L M A O . . . A laugh Riot !

[JPhoenixX]

Dog Hand's Tipping Guidelines to Ensure Longevity

By far the best advice I have seen anywhere about anything. Now I just need a calc to scale those numbers down to my play level. Lol

[Masterhoudini]

Coming from someone that has laid down as much as $100 tips/hr to prolong longevity (prob average $25-50)/hr and tip according to EV, it is totally pointless for you to be even tipping at all. Dealers don't appreciate $1/hr, no matter how you cut it. You're gonna look like a cheapskate regardless and everyone already sees you as such, so what's the point? I mean most dealers think my tipping rate is already too low (first hand accounts from floor/dealers), I just do it for table image purposes.


Then the key point is, with such a low EV, you're really gaining nothing from tipping. Appreciation? No, valuable customer? No, prolonging longevity? (HAHA- if they're gonna kick out a red chipper, that's a problem), as I mentioned in that case it's cumulative win anyways, are you buying important info (ex: dealers have told me when I was being evaluated- not at those tipping rates you won't get that), better pen? (Also not at those rates), higher avg bet rating, more comps from pit (not even close at those rates).

Tipping should be used only as leverage to get something back- save it for later when you CAN and need to tip at higher stakes to survive. I don't thibk tipping should even be a consideration with EV below $100/hr.

[Orangechip2]

Coming from someone that has laid down as much as $100 tips/hr to prolong longevity (prob average $25-50)/hr and tip according to EV, it is totally pointless for you to be even tipping at all. Dealers don't appreciate $1/hr, no matter how you cut it. You're gonna look like a cheapskate regardless and everyone already sees you as such, so what's the point? I mean most dealers think my tipping rate is already too low (first hand accounts from floor/dealers), I just do it for table image purposes.


Then the key point is, with such a low EV, you're really gaining nothing from tipping. Appreciation? No, valuable customer? No, prolonging longevity? (HAHA- if they're gonna kick out a red chipper, that's a problem), as I mentioned in that case it's cumulative win anyways, are you buying important info (ex: dealers have told me when I was being evaluated- not at those tipping rates you won't get that), better pen? (Also not at those rates), higher avg bet rating, more comps from pit (not even close at those rates).

Tipping should be used only as leverage to get something back- save it for later when you CAN and need to tip at higher stakes to survive. I don't thibk tipping should even be a consideration with EV below $100/hr.

While in the stage of 'building a roll' IMO, it doesn't matter if you are playing part time or as a pro - I say just don't tip at all until you HAVE TO. Early on I was over tipping like a fool. After the quarter of the year ended and I broke down my notes I seen that I averaged about $17 an hour in donations, which was like 5k or some shit in a three month period. Yes, 5k..... Not to mention this was a losing 3 months. The next 3 months I tipped NOTHING and traveled more. My results improved drastically. I picked up some travel fees, but it felt better adding up the travel fees and subtracting the mail i received opposed to the other way around.

Like Masterhoudini said, there are hardly any dealers that will appreciate small tips - I came to the conclusion that I would rather get bad rates (if playing rated) and be known as the person who never tips while trying to continuously grow my roll, opposed to being the guy that tips $1 chips at the $25 table.. I've even tried cutting back on tips, but the problem is the $1 chips at the green level are looked at as joke, they don't get you any freebies, and you still leave the table with a D or F rating.. but $5 is too much.

[mushin]

Scenario...

I was playing for a little while with no opportunity to fire off max bets but was winning and up quite a bit so along the way I was tipping. Then I got a shoe that went hot and I fired off my max bets. Bang, Bang, Bang... lost most of them and there went the winnings from earlier shoes where I had not show much of a spread. Then I realized I would have been up or just broke even had I not tipped. When playing we tend to loose sight of the value of the chips. Now I tip but I sure as heck try not to do it at my own expense. Provide to yourself and your family first.

I do tip but more and more I beginning to question why? So as others have said.... if the tip yields something in exchange then that is a different story. But... if my options were tip of place a $5.00 chip on a long shot side bet... I going with the side bet because at least there I have some odds.

[doffing81]

Coming from the perspective of someone who, let us say, has worked in table games, if you are a card counter and are tipping as a psychological strategy, I would say keep it up! It is my general understanding that card counters do not tip, and tipping would counteract this general assumption. In other words, the act of tipping alone produces a psychological advantage, rather than the amount, although this would by far not be absolute in determining whether or not someone would start observing your play. People win huge amounts of freakin' money and won't tip a cent, therefore any tip is graciously appreciated, and in my eyes, just makes you a decent human being, regardless of how much! Obviously, the more the better, so again, keep it up!

[mushin]

Coming from the perspective of someone who, let us say, has worked in table games, if you are a card counter and are tipping as a psychological strategy, I would say keep it up! It is my general understanding that card counters do not tip, and tipping would counteract this general assumption. In other words, the act of tipping alone produces a psychological advantage, rather than the amount, although this would by far not be absolute in determining whether or not someone would start observing your play. People win huge amounts of freakin' money and won't tip a cent, therefore any tip is graciously appreciated, and in my eyes, just makes you a decent human being, regardless of how much! Obviously, the more the better, so again, keep it up!

I agree 100% with this and this is probably the only reason I still tip.

[20 to 1 Spread]

You asked: "Tip 5 red or 1 green?"

The 5 reds Chips will will be banged on the toke box before being dropped.

5 reds will first be converted to a green chip, and that is a GOOD thing


as it takes longer, is more noticeable, and thus, more memorable.

Nice! I sorta had this in the back of my mind while thinking about it, if I ever do tip this much, I will be sure to convert it from red to green!

Your max bet is 2x$400 and your EV is $35/hour? Find a better game.

This is an average estimate for me going into a game, however at opportune times, if I believe I can get away with it, I will increase my 'normal average max bet'. Like last night, I should side thread this on how poorly I messed up and what not to do for max heat, but I attempted to bet every circle that was empty for table max $500 at a TC-11 8 deck liberal rules end of ~1/2 deck remaining. Except I got so much heat from the pitboss and said I couldn't do that (I was first base, 3 guys on 2nd, 4th and 5th). I wanted to bet on circles not adjacent to me lmao, I knew it was a long shot... But the consequences felt really stupid imo.Thus after that, not tipping at all seems like longevity suicide. Attempting to fire $1.5K and not tipping?

While in the stage of 'building a roll' IMO, it doesn't matter if you are playing part time or as a pro - I say just don't tip at all until you HAVE TO. Early on I was over tipping like a fool.

However in my situations, I feel obligated almost. Perhaps its paranoia of the backoff. After they see my action and my usual decent cash out compared to every one around me, not tipping would result not in good graces, but perhaps that chance of more heat. I don't mind tipping, I'm actually a generous tipper to my waiters and waitresses (18-20%) on service if at a decent place; but what I'm really interested in is ------------------------------------------------------------------------------>

Even though I am tipping at $1/hr rate over my play time; in their eyes, I am tipping $25 per session; because I only tip at a 25-30% rate of my total all sessions. With that being said, the consensus that I am getting is to convert that $25 tip into small $5s one and tip throughout the session to be more memorable or vs at the end and throw 5 reds for conversion so that the pitboss can see (most important aspect - pitboss seeing the tip). Thats why I tip at the end. But is dropping that $25 at the end worth it? What am I really gaining, as MasterHoudini stated?

Tips add up, put enough play time, and you might be tipping away 1 or 2 max bets at the end of the year.