hosted 1D H17 3:2 NDAS DA2 NSR 50-75% PEN

[20 to 1 Spread]

After our friendly poker game; I figured I'd host a little bit of blackjack with great rules - I just didn't know there was literally no HOUSE EDGEand looked it up... I allowed a 1-3 spread which they could start the initial hand as (so that was their min and their max was 3x of it). 3 players without basic strategy (but I pretty much told them honestly what to do so they prob had a 85-90% efficiency) and 1 was my card counting partner (but w/e - I hoped variance would be on my side). Anyways at a max bet of $40 and the average probably around $7.50 per bet with 3 "break even" players, I had a house edge of less than .20%. I earned .015 cents per each hand x 3 = ~ 5 cents for flipping against them. Then there's the problem of my AP friend who probably had an estimated EV of $9.50 (just cvcx'ed it). With that being said, with only 1.5 hour of blackjack at the most - I ended down almost $500. Not really sure how.

Got aggressive with my shuffles and gave shuffles every 2 rounds. Kept losing. Then decided to shuffle every hand at the last like 10 mins. Eventually it got to the point where everyone bet on 1 hand at a time of $40-60 and kept blackjacking off the top. I think losing this $500 was more tilting than losing $4500 within 1.5 hours last weekend (but luckily I recovered it). Maybe I wouldn't be saying this if it were true (that'd be illogical) but currently I'm quite salty and it sure feels that way.

Feels weird feeling and talking about variance like this, from the opposite side. I want to go back to being on the player side and winning bets, instead of handing payouts. I dont like... Next time I offer, its gonna be D10,11 NDAS NSR H17 shuffle every FRACKING HAND!! If I do at all, should stick to exploiting players who open for 9xBB every hand and call off 1000 BB pot shoves with TP-nokick-noredraw.

Maybe a night sleep and I'll shrug it off. I told myself to consider that I lost one big bet, but I feel cheated... And its my own fault. I'm ashamed that I even considered myself an AP and did this. I know it was all in great fun and I just wanted to flip, but damn did I give too strong a game away. I hope this encourages me to do research into the future, into single and double decks, or whatever venture it may be, so that I may be prepared for hopefully all if not most, of the situations that may or may not arise. Oh and I also said I wasn't going to lose more than $200 hosting, but then I opened my wallet more and kept hosting. So I guess I lost a bit of control there, which hopefully reinforces me to stick to a plan - worried about chasing losses at the BJ table and table maxing at lower positive TC and opening more than 2 circles (which would break my BR management).

Whew typing and venting this out feels great! The more I think about it, the more I see this $500 as a reminder that when you lose self control, you get punished. Could be a lost worst at the casino, could lose a sizable portion of my actual BR.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

If losing "bothers" you, you have a task before you.

Fully understanding your relationship with money.

Winning and losing must have no valence, as so to speak.

Long ago I stopped reacting to minor individual cash movements.

I do keep one sharp eye on my bankroll; as swings of 10% or

so will make it incumbent upon me to closely examine my play,

and consider investing excess wins ~ or ~ reducing betting levels.

The big issue, as I see it, (having trained so many A.P.'s), is that

all of us have an emotional relationship with money. This is best

seen by extrapolating to the logical extremes. My kid brother has

a net worth over $1,000,000, no liabilities, and a rather modest

"cost of living." He takes NO risk that he can avoid and will go to

strident efforts to save a few pennies. I have an A.P. student with a

bankroll currently standing at > $150,000. The problem is that that

is ½ of what it was a year ago when he was a successful Pro poker

player. This is because he has an inadequate fear of floundering.

That inadequacy has him over-betting at his home casino with an

effective spread that soars to > 100 to 1 at a fairly marginal game.

Now, (using the Hegelian approach), having extrapolated,

(by clumsy examples), to the "logical extremes",

our task is to "synthesize" our ideal which is a "balanced"

BJ player (or anyone involved in ultra short-term investments).

IF one cannot play with equanimity, one should not play, or they

would do well to progressively lower their stakes until losses are

no longer anxiety-provoking and their R.O.R. drops under 1%.

As far as my headstrong reckless poker pro goes, he is in need of an

"anxiety injection" as so to speak. I have created a near-optimal bet

spread for him and I have suggested that he play "nosebleed stakes"

No-Limit Texas Hold 'Em for his adrenaline "fix". That, along with stern

lectures about R.O.R. And how (Pro) BJ is best played at medium stakes

In the style of a "grinder", whose skills pay his (middle class) bills with

considerably less than a net daily win of $1,000. He has just left for Europe

To compete for some huge payoffs in a major international Poker Tournament.

[CallSaul]

And how (Pro) BJ is best played at medium stakes

In the style of a "grinder", whose skills pay his (middle class) bills with

considerably less than a net daily win of $1,000.

Flash, very poignant post.

One follow-up question: what do you mean by "medium stakes"? Do you mind putting some numbers on that?

[ZenMaster_Flash]

CallSaul,

You asked:

"what do you mean by "medium stakes"? Do you mind putting some numbers on that?":

"Medium" is a relative and highly subjective term.

Norm's software can give you the S C O R E for a game so that your "win rate" and R.O.R.

(Risk of Ruin) is known, allowing one to custom tailor their play to target their earnings at BJ.

One can determine what their cost of living is. That can be viewed as "overhead."

That is our "nut." What we wish to win, as a minimum, to cover life's expenses.

One can then add to that so that assets, (bankroll included) can grow.

************************************************** *******

For a "quick and dirty" translation of "medium stakes" I meant "light green play."

[20 to 1 Spread]

I don't believe its the loss of the money itself, but the process at which I lost it through. I tried to illogically calm myself by pretending that I lost a "big bet" at a BJ session in a hot TC - as it is obviously required; APs are quite used to the swings of BJ, the ups and down. Losing money in a great opportunity knowing that I generated EV is not a problem - the problem in this situation was that I lost it in a negative situation. While I did host a game with some slight edge (.0018%), I sorta knowingly allowed my card counter friend to go against me - despite I said early in the poker session that he was not allowed to play, but every else was welcomed. Yet when I went into the red - all action that seemed borderline was welcome - increasing the variance for better or worse.

At the end of the day, I was in the red, I wanted to chase, so I allowed and encouraged higher bets. I even asked my friends to fire $100s off the top of the deck at me. Remember we were just playing a low stakes NL poker game and now I'm requesting some serious cash that you would see at a casino red/green chipper fire. While it doesn't affect my BR, it really affects my own mentality. Like posted many times before, I'm addressing self-control in the attempts of not blowing up another bankroll. Since then, I've lowered my ROI to 10% and still trying to lower it day by day. It's just that the $500 I lost today was "drawer" money and "loose" change and I had not consider it to be part of my actual bankroll. Yet when considered, that's another one big bet that I could've added in a much better EV spot - and instead I wasted it on this negative EV situation - which is why I am ultimately disappointed in myself.

However after taking a shower and thinking this situation over for the last 2-3 hours and writing about it; I felt like losing this $500 was a cheap get-off and reminder to myself that I used to and still - have some serious self control issues (regarding chasing losses). Perhaps and it's probably true, I'm using it as an excuse to lose the $500, but if it holds off the urge of "gambling" for another few months, then lowering that % chance where I completely blow up at a casino session where I have 10-15K in my pockets could be well spent insurance.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

It takes a measure of courage to admit to having a gambling problem;
even if it is done anonymously. More power to ya', "20 to 1 Spread"

[Masterhoudini]

One follow-up question: what do you mean by "medium stakes"? Do you mind putting some numbers on that?

My opinion of medium stakes is green to low black $25 or $50 to $2x300 or so. Basically we're talking like 70-100k EV a year. Anything in the purple-orange range for max bet I'd consider high stakes. I'd consider high stakes to be 250k+ EV a year. These are just ballpark numbers.

[Tarzan]

The best answer I've ever heard to the questions on bankroll were that "A sufficient bankroll is enough that there are no losses that can amount to any change in quality of life factors or whether your bills get paid and it is merely a number that goes up and down on a ledger". Hmm... let me see, who said that? Anyway, it's absolutely correct. If your losses go beyond that and you're not profitable in the long haul, you need to take a hard look at what you're doing.

[Blitzkrieg]

You should be ashamed and slightly embarrassed for the way you handled your actions 20 to 1 Spread. Your poker buddies should scold you for the way you dealt them, especially your blackjack buddy! What you did to them by dealing them the way you did... you dealt your buddies worse than what the damn casino would have more than likely done. You should be ashamed of yourself! I cannot believe they still wanted to play even though you resorted to shuffling up after dealing 2 rounds, and then shuffling up after every hand for the last ten minutes, you played the part of a prick dealer very well. What are you doing sweating a little $500 loss to your poker buddies banking a BJ game when your thinking about taking $10K-$15K to the tables?

[20 to 1 Spread]

You should be ashamed and slightly embarrassed for the way you handled your actions 20 to 1 Spread. Your poker buddies should scold your ass for the way you dealt them, especially your blackjack buddy! What you did to them by dealing them the way you did... you dealt your buddies worse than what the damn casino would have more than likely done. You should be ashamed of yourself! I cannot believe they still wanted to play even though you resorted to shuffling up after dealing 2 rounds, and then shuffling up after every hand for the last ten minutes, you played the part of a prick dealer very well. What are you doing sweating a little $500 loss to your poker buddies banking a BJ game when your thinking about taking $10K-$15K to the tables?

I believe it is inferred that I am not and did not sweat the money because I was perfectly okay with flipping them $100s at the end off the top. However what I cannot stand was the fact that I hosted such an EV game in their favor - not because of the money - but because I'm hosting a probable losing game unknowingly. The rules I gave, according to CVCX was a house edge of .20% and that's only if I dealt had 50% pen. I was dealing to 75% which probably means no house edge and including my card counting buddie, I would lose in the long run. It's not the fact that I lost money, it's the fact that I hosted such a game that disappoints
myself. I'm trying to host a .20% house edge game short term to win my money back fairly with the most liberal rules on the planet while giving honest advice and decisions on how to play 100% effective basic strategy against myself - I believe I should not stand for a CC taking me for my money - even if it's my own friend for a mere 50 bucks. It's just my mentality.

With that said, more studying to do. Stay calm, remain calm, don't chase.

[Blitzkrieg]

A game that disappoints for you or for your buddies? I bet your friends felt disappointed in your deal and I would have to say that you did host a game that disappoints. It wasn't very long ago myself where I played in a home poker game and I must say that I was disappointed in the way the game was handled to include the rules of the game. I had to let the guy know who took me to that home game that I was disappointed with what he brought me to, although it was an easy game. I believe you mentioned that two of your buddies didn't even know basic strategy. Even with one card counter on the table the way in which you handled the deal it seems to me that you took the advantage back and at best made the game unplayable to where you knew if you were presented with such a deal in the casino, there is no way you would play such a game. Why would you deal crap like that to the people your having a good time with? It's good that they did not take you out back to teach you some manners.

[20 to 1 Spread]

I think there's a difference when I go to a casino for blackjack and when I'm hosting blackjack for a little while at the end of a poker night. One I'm there to actually profit and the other, well it's just to flip for money. Hosting BJ was different from playing colors on poker (red or black) or high card draw. If it was as close to zero % edge, then I'm fine with it. But when I'm playing a losing game - then that's not okay. Like I said, I provided my truthful answers on what to do for each hit (i was counting along to see what my CC bud would do) and had no intentions on hosting this with "i'm going to take all your money in the long run - but rather, hey let's flip for a few bucks for a bit and call it a night).

You stated I dealt a crap game. Perhaps at the end. But I'm not going to offer a 1-4 spread with such rules and pen and allow a min bet of $50 and spread to $200. Are you? Because sign me up, that game sounds more EV and less risky than any game I play at

[Blitzkrieg]

Okay so you didn't get emotional with the BJ at the end of the night, flipping for a few bucks as you say? You certainly changed your mind real quick as you were dealing them. Did you get more action than you bargained for or did it just not go your way? If I told them I would deal them under set conditions and rules than I would hold up my end of the bargain. I most definitely would not have done your buddies the way you did them. That's for sure.

If you felt uncomfortable that you didn't have the edge when you were dealing them from the beginning, then you should have just stopped the game but don't change the game up to where your sticking it to your friends just because their up a bit, I mean C'mon. Maybe you would have gotten it all back and then some if you would have given it more time knowing what you had changed the game into. I think that's pretty low down from a players perspective to short shoe/deck them from all the things I've learned about BJ.