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Thread: My Experience With Networking

  1. #1


    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    My Experience With Networking

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    Last edited by Orangechip2; 07-09-2015 at 09:03 PM. Reason: forget it
    There is no glory in practice, but without practice there is no glory . -Unknown

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangechip2 View Post
    I am curious as to how so many of you have grown such a large network when it comes to Advantage Play.

    I am not sure if this was an actual request for info or an excuse to post what you posted. I have a decent network. It began with some top pros contacting me to help me. Since then I have helped a lot of people. I didn't expect anything. I just answered their questions honestly. Some I helped get back to a simple count others I helped learn things about doing the math to get answers that are hard to come by. Others ended up pursuing more complicated approaches. It is funny I never try to tell them what to do just answer their questions. So often they do unexpected things with the answers. I just forget about having helped them because so many have asked. Some contact me later to reciprocate with info they think I will find useful. This sometimes ends up being a relationship. I even helped Bjarg one time and forgot about it. I PM'ed him about something he posted about non-BJ advantage play and to my surprise I got a very detailed response about all kinds of non-card counting advantage plays. I responded that I was amazed he was so forthcoming. He replied that I had helped him in the past and he was just reciprocating. I still am not sure how I helped him or what I could possibly offer such a seasoned pro. The vast and diversified skill set he revealed to me was truly amazing. Maybe he asked for a scouting report because he was in the area. I didn't think he traveled around my area so that probably isn't it.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    I am not sure if this was an actual request for info or an excuse to post what you posted. I have a decent network. It began with some top pros contacting me to help me. Since then I have helped a lot of people. I didn't expect anything. I just answered their questions honestly. Some I helped get back to a simple count others I helped learn things about doing the math to get answers that are hard to come by. Others ended up pursuing more complicated approaches. It is funny I never try to tell them what to do just answer their questions. So often they do unexpected things with the answers. I just forget about having helped them because so many have asked. Some contact me later to reciprocate with info they think I will find useful. This sometimes ends up being a relationship. I even helped Bjarg one time and forgot about it. I PM'ed him about something he posted about non-BJ advantage play and to my surprise I got a very detailed response about all kinds of non-card counting advantage plays. I responded that I was amazed he was so forthcoming. He replied that I had helped him in the past and he was just reciprocating. I still am not sure how I helped him or what I could possibly offer such a seasoned pro. The vast and diversified skill set he revealed to me was truly amazing. Maybe he asked for a scouting report because he was in the area. I didn't think he traveled around my area so that probably isn't it.

    thats not what i was going for at all..

  4. #4
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    Did you want a critique of contacts because that is what you posted?

  5. #5


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    I enjoyed the post before you deleted it. I'll do a few quick ones.

    AP #1: Met this guy when I first started. I don't believe we ever split money, but we shared scouting info. He also helped me find a book, which I truly appreciated.

    AP #2: Wanted to meet this guy because he was such a clown of the forums, I had to see what he was like in person. He is a fun person. Never really played or networked.

    AP #3: This guy is well respected in the GC community. Very professional. When I was new I e-mailed him a question and was happily surprised to get an answer. Later met in person a few times for brief conversations. He has also given me info via e-mail that helped me avoid problems.

    AP #4: This is the only person I met online and have shared results with. Splitting results with someone you don't know real well is hard, but it worked out this time. We had a couple trips, did pretty well. He quit his job and moved to Vegas. This guy taught me how important washing your hands is in casinos. I watched him wash his hands a few times and it was crazy. He vigorously rubs the soap and really spends a full minute like you are suppose to. I have improved my handwashing, but am still not quite on his level. I don't think I get sick quite as much as I use to from casinos.

    AP #5: I think this guy got into money trouble. There were some signs while we were playing. He had a very good reputation, and then very quickly had a "secret" terrible reputation. I was invited to invest in a play, but had a bad feeling about it.

    Pretty much lost touch with the above APs, although I still have most of their contact info and could get back in touch if I made the effort.

    APs #6,7,8,9 Met these folks at my local casino somewhat recently. Some are very chatty. One is not. All were friendly. I was surprised at how people just sit down on your game. I was told you weren't suppose to do that, but it seems very common. I still don't sit at someone else's game unless I am invited and think it will be OK. Heard some interesting stories and shared some info, although I mostly try to avoid them. One is 86ed, I no longer see him but bet our paths with cross again some day.

    Meeting people is somewhat dangerous, but usually enjoyable and sometimes worthwhile.

  6. #6


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    sorry if i came off as looking for an excuse to post.. MRt3
    There is no glory in practice, but without practice there is no glory . -Unknown

  7. #7
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    It was just the question and the post didn't really fit each other. I went with answering the question with one specific. I have had bad experiences as well. It was just that the return from whatever I did for Bjarg was amazing. I help a lot of people and don't expect anything so I don't really remember who they are. So I can't even remember helping him. Obviously he asked a question that needed sensitive info and I PM'ed him. I have no clue what it was about. If I thought it was something major I would probably remember. I really am amazed I had anything to offer him but obviously I did. I liked your post. I am sorry I chose words poorly that had you remove it. There were valuable lessons there for vetting your network. But I guess no matter what you do it is hard to know who you are dealing with online. They may misrepresent themselves or be misrepresented by others. There is no way to know until you meet them which I guess was your point.

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    I am always vary of meeting other AP"s. The one time I did, he had bad variance, lost his trip bankroll, hassled me to loan him money cause I was up a few hundred dollars.

    its still meeting strangers and there are risks involved. Some AP's have helped me through PM's and shared a bit about themselves but I have not tried to meet them. If I go to Las Begas, I am carrying significant cash. Would I really want to meet someone in another city when you are carrying $$$$ in a different city? Most AP's always have significant $$$ in their wallets or car or home, would they want anyone to know they are AP's?

    i hVe no doubt that many are nice and kind AP's but there are many who have just become hustlers taking advantage wherever possible. I would not want to be seen as an "opportunity" by some. Be careful.

  9. #9


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    I have met several AP's from forums (here and another forum).....one of which I didn't even know was an AP, but kind of knew him in real life. We met up and were like "wait wtf...i know you."

    Some I've just met up with, grabbed a beer at a bar and some food, and talked about AP stuff....how we started, some of our experiences, perhaps some strategies or useful info, maybe shared some info about lax casinos that don't sweat the action or which dealers are fast or cut deep. And that's pretty much it.

    Other AP's I've met up with, I got to know them and eventually started playing with them. The group I'm playing with right now, I met on some forums. We met up at a casino, talked about stuff (experiences, how we started AP, etc.)....slowly but surely we started playing together when opportunities arose.

    I've learned about machine play in the past, but always kinda viewed it as a secondary form of AP, while BJ would be my bread-and-butter. But with playing with these guys, I've learned a whole lot more about machine play, and am playing very little BJ. The great thing about machine play, is if you find the right opportunities, you don't need a gigantic bankroll to play at a very nice hourly wage, and are almost certain of winning money. Being on the super far left of the curve (awful negative variance) on some of these plays means you end up breaking even. Some are very simple, while others are fairly complex. The hardest part (usually) is figuring out how to beat the damn machines, which means you might spend hours at home figuring out how it works....then spending hours at the casino testing if it works and verifying it's doing what you think (and want) it to be doing.


    But overall, in my experience, meeting AP's has always been beneficial to me. When meeting APs from forums, I've also gotten introduced into their network. I think a lot of people say AP / card-counting is a lonely endeavor because they don't meet and play with other APs. But, if you meet some and start playing with them, it gets a lot more fun. Just be smart about who you meet and what you do with them. I guess that's true for many aspects of life, though.
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    I am always wary of meeting other AP"s. The one time I did, he had bad variance, lost his trip bankroll, hassled me to loan him money cause I was up a few hundred dollars.

    its still meeting strangers and there are risks involved. Some AP's have helped me through PM's and shared a bit about themselves but I have not tried to meet them. If I go to Las Begas, I am carrying significant cash. Would I really want to meet someone in another city when you are carrying $$$$ in a different city? Most AP's always have significant $$$ in their wallets or car or home, would they want anyone to know they are AP's?

    i hVe no doubt that many are nice and kind AP's but there are many who have just become hustlers taking advantage wherever possible. I would not want to be seen as an "opportunity" by some. Be careful.
    This might be ZeeBabar's best post ever. Heed his advice and the advice here: http://bj21.com/bj_reference/pages/i...n_others.shtml
    Opinions and Commentary on the Gaming Industry: The Bear Growls

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    If I go to Las Begas, I am carrying significant cash. Would I really want to meet someone in another city when you are carrying $$$$ in a different city?
    The 3 people that I have met that base their operation out of Vegas have all been the real deal. The clowns Ive came across have been East of Kentucky and up in Canada area.

    But I agree, I've only been formally invited to one APs home. The rest were at random locations for simplicity purposes; not because they didn't trust me but more because they might be 60 miles north of the airport and the store we intend on playing may be 20 miles south of the airport. & im not one to sleep on a couch, id rather sleep in my vehicle - so when offered to lounge at someones place I usually go with a hotel so I can actually stretch out and get comfortable. I only put myself in a 'bad position once' and that was because the person I intended on meeting stood me up after I told him where I was staying, the amount of currency I was traveling with, etc., and I just didn't feel comfortable.

  12. #12


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    Wait whyd you delete the post?! What wss it about

  13. #13


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Anybody have any tips for good procedures and policies for meeting someone new to do business with? Personal security, record keeping, anything of that sort.

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