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Thread: When do semi pros and pros retire from the game?

  1. #1


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    When do semi pros and pros retire from the game?

    I am curious to know when a semi-pro or pro would consider retirement and if there's a sweet spot for this. Is it simply when you feel like you've achieved a financial goal, learned as much as you feel you wanna learn, fatigue/boredom, feel like you want to do other things? When do you know it's time to bow out gracefully? (I don't mean busting out a bankroll).

    I ask this because I'm currently contemplating retirement- contemplating is key- not even seriously. I feel all of the above though. In my humble 2 year career, I've achieved big numbers, more than I could ever ask for- and I've been so grateful to have the opportunity. I blast purple and orange chips, enjoy kind of a "high roller" casino lifestyle and the perks that come with it, and have weathered the extreme swings that come with it (I believe my biggest swing has been around 85k in one night). I have no problem attacking poor SCORE games without the blink of an eye and have done well weathering the storms.

    I have plenty of games to play- longevity is not a huge issue as of yet. It's not the losing- I'm having a fairly bad year but am still up over 6 figures. I don't know if it's my mental tenacity and attitude which has changed though, or if it's burn out or I simply have had enough. I guess maybe I'm more of a goal directed individual and I feel as though my financial goal here has eclipsed what I wanted to do- so I don't have anything left to prove in this domain. Should you just continue stacking the cash till you can't anymore when you become too well known? Where is the endpoint?

    Just wanted to hear everyone's opinion. Let me reiterate that I've been grateful to have been able to do this and do it fairly successfully, just wondering when it's time for me to buy a Ferrari and floor it towards the sunset. Thanks

    MH

  2. #2


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    When the time comes you will know it. Take a pro athlete, say Jordan or Ali. You quit it, miss it and return for a bit more. You may not win as much if lay off and Father Time has eroded some skills but you do return to try it. Others still revolve around their profession, becoming commentators or referees and only playing recreationally in the Gym. Some others run camps to share their knowledge.

    Some, are able to completely withdraw from their career.

    in my case, in my real career, which I loved most of my life, age seems to have shown me how much conditions have detiorated, how unethical and morally wrong some things have become and I have to do, so I have announced my plans to retire next June and I have no intentions of doing anything further that remotely resembles my past career.

    i would guess playing BJ is no different.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterhoudini View Post
    Where is the endpoint?
    Do costs exceed the benefits? Do you anticipate that will change?

    Benefit doesn't always mean making money. Some people play for entertainment, and stop when it isn't fun anymore.
    Last edited by Dieter; 07-09-2015 at 10:31 AM.
    May the cards fall in your favor.

  4. #4
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    Often a break from the game can solve your issues. If you are gradually losing stores a break can often have them forget about you. If you are getting burned out a break can help. Etc. Perhaps rather than retirement you should be considering a vacation or an extended break.

    For a more direct answer I think if you have to ask a form you are not there yet. When it is time you will be sure. Since you are not sure I suggest a break for a while to recharge etc. If you are just looking to play until you stop for good I think that you ask that question here shows you aren't there yet.

  5. #5
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    I started playing blackjack 40 years ago, and during that time I have taken several extended breaks from the game for various reasons. My advice is to maintain your skills by going through practice drills periodically while "on break". That way if a profitable opportunity arises or you decide to get back into the game you won't need to go through a lengthy retraining process.

  6. #6


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    MH
    Granted, I have some inside info on you. A rest, so to speak, simply to invigorate yourself may be in order. You, more so than most on this board, also have the opportunity to do something important in this lifetime - aside from Advantage play. Maybe I'm wrong, but perhaps the current short term journey has brought new issues to light which you may not have previously considered.

    FWIW, I'm now semi retired, as such, and am contemplating a bit of a journey myself. I'm sure there will be some new experiences along the way - though my goals may be a bit different than yours.

  7. #7


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    I would think many an AP might be inclined to quit simply when their bankroll reaches a point where there are better methods for growth, and/or AP blackjack becomes a waste of time.

    Trying to build a 50K bankroll....AP blackjack can be a great way to build to six figures and beyond. Trying to build on, I don't know, say a million or maybe more....probably a waste of time. Better uses of your time and money to try and build that bankroll. At best, AP BJ might just turn into a hobby at that point.

  8. #8


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    Sounds like you have a very interesting story to tell. Think about writing a book. Most of the books that are out there on Pros beating the game (e.g., Ian Andersen's "Burning the Tables in Las Vegas" and Frank Scoblete's "I am a Card Counter") were written about careers in the 1980s and 90s. Frank Scoblete made a ton of money beating a single-deck game day after day in Vegas. When the game ran out of cards, they just shuffled the cards in the discard tray and kept going. While these books are fascinating reads, they are not realistic relative to today's playing conditions, which are much tougher to profit from.

    So how about telling your stories. "Blackjack Pro 2015 - You can Still Beat the House". I'll be the first buyer....

  9. #9


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    Haha my story isn't interesting to be honest BD, sorry to disappoint you but my book would prob be used as a paper weight. Just another AP who started out as red chipper who went from $5000-$500000+. It has been done many times, and can still be done today. Finding a solid game rules wise and tolerant low stakes game is the key to success.

    The conditions in 2015 are admittedly worse for a red chipper but there are still tons of $5-10 games where you can get about $50-100/EV with as little as $5000 bank- ROR prob around 15-20%, high SCORE games. This is the key to building a first bankroll (30-50k) so you can move up in stakes. You will see me occasionally playing these games with my good friend's $800 trip bankroll to help them make their rent money on the 30th (done successfully 6 times/8 so far).
    Last edited by Masterhoudini; 07-09-2015 at 10:36 AM.

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterhoudini View Post
    I am curious to know when a semi-pro or pro would consider retirement and if there's a sweet spot for this. Is it simply when you feel like you've achieved a financial goal, learned as much as you feel you wanna learn, fatigue/boredom, feel like you want to do other things? When do you know it's time to bow out gracefully? (I don't mean busting out a bankroll).

    I ask this because I'm currently contemplating retirement- contemplating is key- not even seriously. I feel all of the above though. In my humble 2 year career, I've achieved big numbers, more than I could ever ask for- and I've been so grateful to have the opportunity. I blast purple and orange chips, enjoy kind of a "high roller" casino lifestyle and the perks that come with it, and have weathered the extreme swings that come with it (I believe my biggest swing has been around 85k in one night). I have no problem attacking poor SCORE games without the blink of an eye and have done well weathering the storms.

    I have plenty of games to play- longevity is not a huge issue as of yet. It's not the losing- I'm having a fairly bad year but am still up over 6 figures. I don't know if it's my mental tenacity and attitude which has changed though, or if it's burn out or I simply have had enough. I guess maybe I'm more of a goal directed individual and I feel as though my financial goal here has eclipsed what I wanted to do- so I don't have anything left to prove in this domain. Should you just continue stacking the cash till you can't anymore when you become too well known? Where is the endpoint?

    Just wanted to hear everyone's opinion. Let me reiterate that I've been grateful to have been able to do this and do it fairly successfully, just wondering when it's time for me to buy a Ferrari and floor it towards the sunset. Thanks

    MH
    When to quit? Hmm...we may be able to learn something from this famous actuary. Here are some good reasons why he quit years ago:

    1) $1MM were stolen,
    2) gambling isn't nealy as much fun any more,
    3) mob came after the actuary, and
    4) he & family moved out the country!

  11. #11


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    I'll be honest, I don't know many "travel all over the country" full-time pros that are happy. The happy people I know tend to settle down in a casino area, or do something else and gamble part-time. I played full-time for a short period, and it was just awful for me. Now, playing as a hobby and getting free steak dinners and suites all over the country, that's not a bad life. Also, a lot of professionals retire into semi-pro gambling. Lots of doctors with several million stashed who just enjoy doing it.

    If I were you, I would consider some ways to diversify into passive income streams. Stock market investing is decent. Real estate investing can be very good and very tax-friendly if done correctly. Starting a business that will be relatively hands-off can be a good way to diversify as well.

    Also, I would challenge you to look at ways that you can give away some of what you have. I know a lot of miserable rich people (I've done their taxes), but the happy ones I know give significant amounts of money and time away. I do some volunteer tax work, and it's honestly far more rewarding than ripping a max-bet blackjack.

    "One person gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty
    A generous person will prosper; whoever refreshes others will be refreshed" (Proverbs 11:24-25)
    The Cash Cow.

  12. #12


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    When you're barred from every casino in the world.

  13. #13


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    Thanks everyone for your replies and suggestions.

    The pro lifestyle is challenging for sure, it gets the $$ but I'm not sure I'm enjoying it. It seems ridiculous but I often think I would trade nice suites, and fine dining for bed at home and a home cooked meal. I have my primary career on hiatus right now, and Moo, thanks for the challenge- I've always believed in the value of philanthropy and have made a lot of effort into chairing multiple volunteer organizations in the past (I did too much in that respect and got burnt out too, but I may return).

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