Bankroll needed to average $50 per hour?

**Lucoco** · 07-01-2015, 06:08 PM

After reading here as I learn more about counting, you all will probably say something like $100,000! lol. Seriously, with perfect play, what's the average needed?

**Bodarc** · 07-01-2015, 08:19 PM

Depending on the rules, penetration, back counting and wonging etc, a good estimate would be 35 to 40,000 without too high of a risk of ruin.

**BJGenius007** · 07-01-2015, 08:56 PM

This is from page 159, Blackjack For Blood. What Bryce recommended:

You have bankroll $2000. You learned Advanced Omega II and mastered it. You find a typical double deck game. You spread $10 to $40.

Your risk of ruin is 15.6%. That means, your chance of winning indefinitely or forever is 84.4%. The average hour gain is $18. In case that your $2000 bankroll is wiped out, it is really no big deal. You just save money from your regular job. When you have the new bankroll $2000, you can start it again.

To suit your need, the scheme is modified to:

You have $6000 bankroll. You spread $40 to $160 on a typical double deck game. You will win $54 a hour in average. The chance you will play forever is 84.4%. There is a 15.6% of the chance your BR would be wiped out.

Shoe game requires bigger spread thus max bet is higher. You need to spread $40 to $600 and have $24000 bankroll to have 15.6% RoR and earning $54 per hour.

**Midwest Player** · 07-01-2015, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by Bodarc

Depending on the rules, penetration, back counting and wonging etc, a good estimate would be 35 to 40,000 without too high of a risk of ruin.

Don't think you need a bankroll that big to make $50 an hour. I do think a $25,000 bankroll spreading $25 to $200 on a double deck game will earn close to $50 an hour with less than a 2% risk of ruin.

**Midwest Player** · 07-01-2015, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by BJGenius007

To suit your need, the scheme is modified to:

You have $6000 bankroll. You spread $40 to $160 on a typical double deck game. You will win $54 a hour in average. The chance you will play forever is 84.4%. There is a 15.6% of the chance your BR would be wiped out.

Shoe game requires bigger spread thus max bet is higher. You need to spread $40 to $600 and have $24000 bankroll to have 15.6% RoR and earning $54 per hour.

You won't make $50 an hour. Instead you will get wiped out using that spread. That spread gives you a 57% risk of ruin on a H17 DD game with a $6,000 bank.

RS · 07-02-2015, 03:38 AM

OP, it comes down to a lot of different factors. One of which is desired or acceptable risk. Also remember you're not making a steady $50/hour flat. There are huge swings in the game [relative to your hourly expectation].

What kind of game, rules, penetration, and acceptable risk are you looking at?

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 07-02-2015, 06:11 AM

The OP is referencing a SCORE of 50.

Read the invaluable BlackJack Attack, 3rd ed.

dshles is always invited to SUMMARIZE and/or EXPAND upon this.

KJ · 07-02-2015, 11:05 AM

Too many unanswered questions, to do anything but guess. ZM_Flash is correct, in my mind the OP is talking about generating EV of $50/hr. BR to safely do so, will be very different for different games, mainly DD vs 6d. But what I think we can all agree on is $6000 is not such a number for any circumstance now, in today's world with today's games. That is just not going to happen.

I am going to go out on a limb and assume (and we all know about assume), that the OP is interested in supporting himself and he has concluded that $50/hr is the level he needs to do so. If that is the case, they you have to consider if there really is enough decent DD games around to allow you to do this and if you will be allowed to play them at any kind of reasonable spread. I, personally can't get down the spread Midwest player mentioned at DD, at least not for long. I suspect the answer is no to both questions, so then you have to look at incorporating much 6d play at various conditions and we are talking a higher BR number.

Without running any kind of computer software, just off of the top of my head, I would answer $40K, minimum, 50K better, placing emphasis on minimal RoR. Maybe as low as $30K if you accept more risk.

**BJGenius007** · 07-02-2015, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Midwest Player

You won't make $50 an hour. Instead you will get wiped out using that spread. That spread gives you a 57% risk of ruin on a H17 DD game with a $6,000 bank.

I am just a messenger. Repeat what Bryce Carlson said in his book. I, too, think he is too optimistic on how far $2000 bankroll can go. As KJ said, the decent double deck games can no longer be found compared to ten years ago when his book published.

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 07-02-2015, 12:39 PM

BJGenius007 is 100% correct.

KJ · 07-02-2015, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash

BJGenius007 is 100% correct.

VERY incomplete statement! In what regard is BJG correct...that this is what Carlson said, or are you too endorsing the notion that $6000 is all that's needed to generate $50 EV on a consistent basis via card counting in 2015.

You are a smart man and think you too should be able to read between the lines and see what this question is likely really asking. Please don't tell me that you are endorsing the notion that a player in 2015 can start with a bankroll of $6000 and earn EV of $50/hr counting cards on a regular basis.

btw...BJG arrived at this $6000 figure by quadrupling Bryce's the spread from $10-40 to $40-160, while only tripling Bryce's $2000 bankroll figure. It's actually a little confusing as to how he arrived at that.

**Jabberwocky** · 07-02-2015, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by KJ

VERY incomplete statement! In what regard is BJG correct...that this is what Carlson said, or are you too endorsing the notion that $6000 is all that's needed to generate $50 EV on a consistent basis via card counting in 2015.

You are a smart man and think you too should be able to read between the lines and see what this question is likely really asking. Please don't tell me that you are endorsing the notion that a player in 2015 can start with a bankroll of $6000 and earn EV of $50/hr counting cards on a regular basis.

btw...BJG arrived at this $6000 figure by quadrupling Bryce's the spread from $10-40 to $40-160, while only tripling Bryce's $2000 bankroll figure. It's actually a little confusing as to how he arrived at that.

I was under the impression that a DD player would make between .25 - .30 of his big bet per hour. So if the big bet is $60 then ~$16/hr. But maybe I have it wrong.

KJ · 07-02-2015, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

I was under the impression that a DD player would make between .25 - .30 of his big bet per hour. So if the big bet is $60 then ~$16/hr. But maybe I have it wrong.

Depends on conditions, rules, spread and penetration. But then you would get into can you really play this game and spread what's necessary for any amount of time to make this amount consistently and for any length of time?

Again at this point we don't even know if the OP has any DD available to him and or if he is talking about playing a few hours on a weekend generating $50/hr EV or playing fulltime generating $50/hr EV. These are big unanswered questions, which means we are all, myself included just speculating at the moment.