Continuous Shuffle Machines can they be beaten?

[Ace of Bass]

New member here trying to learn this game. after losing to a CSM(Continuous Shuffle Machine) i looked online and saw that CSMs are frowned upon. but basic strategy was developed on a full deck of cards. CSMs should allow for perfect basic strategy every time thus giving u a slight edge on the house even though u cant gain form counting. i understand "why not count when u can? play a real shoe!" but my local casino has many CSMs and few shoes and they are all 8 decks with funny rules (no standard blackjack tables)

what are u guys thoughts on this?

[ZenMaster_Flash]

You cannot count at a CSM table so there is no point in playing.

Basic Strategy will not make for an advantage in play.

If you must play with poor rules and / or poor penetration you

May be able to wrangle some profits from the casino.

You stated: "CSMs should allow for perfect basic strategy every time thus giving u a slight edge"

That is entirely false. The house will have an edge - between 0.2% and 1.8% depending on the rules

and that is for you when your Basic Strategy is "perfect" for the rules in effect.

[biggg]

There are plenty of great opportunities at the CSM games. There are some great things you can do with comps and bouncebacks at the right stores. Also, think outside the box, or in front of it (lol).

[ZenMaster_Flash]

biggg is entitled to his opinion, and is welcome to elaborate upon his cryptic comments.

[Bodarc]

There are some great things you can do with comps and bouncebacks at the right stores. Also, think outside the box, or in front of it (lol)

Does the number 16 have anything to do with what you are talking about biggg?

[stopgambling]

I believe so,biggg.I do not need more hints.I can see what you are getting at , no need for anymore hints.

[KJ]

There are plenty of great opportunities at the CSM games. There are some great things you can do with comps and bouncebacks at the right stores. Also, think outside the box, or in front of it (lol).

Agreed. My partner and I each slow play a CSM game weekly for about 45 minutes to an hour. Full table, side bets and dealers that just pause for 30 seconds to a minute to chat means we each play maybe 40 rounds per week and it literally costs us a couple bucks. BUT, that little bit of play generates Upwards on $50 each in EV per week via mailer (free bets, match plays, cash back), plus another $10 bucks each in food credit, so it's a win-win for us. It's kind of interesting slowing the dealer and game down for a change.

[seriousplayer]

You cannot count at a CSM table so there is no point in playing.

Basic Strategy will not make for an advantage in play.

If you must play with poor rules and / or poor penetration you

May be able to wrangle some profits from the casino.

You stated: "CSMs should allow for perfect basic strategy every time thus giving u a slight edge"

That is entirely false. The house will have an edge - between 0.2% and 1.8% depending on the rules

and that is for you when your Basic Strategy is "perfect" for the rules in effect.

Well, some people in this forum told me that all games are vulnerable. In the same sense if all games are vulnerable this includes CSM Blackjack games. If CSM blackjack games are vulnerable than there must be a way to be them. Unfortunately, I don't know or have knowledge in beating CSM games.

[sefwow]

There's no way to get an edge with a CSM game - the cards are continuously shuffled. Yes a CSM might marginally lower the house edge but all CSM games will have a house edge that makes them unbeatable in the long run.

[seriousplayer]

There's no way to get an edge with a CSM game - the cards are continuously shuffled. Yes a CSM might marginally lower the house edge but all CSM games will have a house edge that makes them unbeatable in the long run.

Some experts here might disagree.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Like assholes, we all have opinions.

I prefer facts, mathematically based.

[Shadowless]

I remember reading a site post stating that it's possible, though I've never tested it myself nor have I conducted any simulations.

If the running count is +5 for the last 16 cards, then you have approximately a 0.04% edge.
You will see RC +5 or higher in the last 16 cards 8% of the time.

To read more, search: Counting CSM Blackjack (+EV)

[Three]

In other words it is a waste of time.